[nagdu] stress, how much is too much?

Fri Nov 16 15:36:28 UTC 2012

Wow Toni!  Your dog Wendy sounds awesome.  She must have been a little
diva.  :)

Regarding sniffing, I find that my dog sniffs when she is either bored
or in a new environment like a car she has never been in.  I don't
find that it shows stress, especially because she does most of her
sniffing when she is out of harness.  I wonder how you would
distinguish between normal curious sniffing and stress sniffing.  I
guess the amount of sniffing would tell you, but other than that...
Some dogs are just sniffers.

On 11/15/12, Toni Whaley <blind_treasurer at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> I will describe stress behaviors by three of my dogs. My dog Wendy was
> always licking. When you told her to stop, she would stop licking whatever
> it was but continued to lick the air. I didn't think much about it.
> However,
> when I retired her, she stopped licking. So I decided it was her form of
> relieving low-level stress. I've labeled it as low-level stresss, because
> she always was willing to work and my safety was never in question. Indeed,
> when Wendy did something exceptional or unusual, she expected extra praise.
> To ensure she got it, she would sit down waiting for praise. One of these
> times happened in the middle of a street. I had to convince her to finish
> crossing the street. AS soon as we stepped up on the curb, she sat down
> waiting for her praise. What a cool and insightful Dog!
>
> My second example involved my first dog Mora. Mora loved her work. Every
> time she heard me getting the harness, she'd come running. If I held the
> harness at her level, she'd run right into it. If she had a stressful day
> (which wasn't often), she'd throw up bowel in the middle of the night. Even
> though she was always excited to go to work, during the summer of her
> seventh year of work she started shaking while waiting for a bus or a
> train.
> If this shaking had started during the winter, I might have ignored it
> thinking she was cold. However, cold wasn't the issue in 95-degree weather.
> Someone from Guiding Eyes came down and concurred with my diagnosis. Even
> though he assured me that Mora was still guiding me safely, I retired her,
> began using my cane, and applied for a new dog.
>
> My final example involved by current dog's predecessor, sport. After two
> years of work his enthusiasm began to wain. He started crossing the streets
> in an unsafe manner, even crossing diagonally into parallel traffic. At
> first, this happened on relatively quiet streets; so I wasn't always aware
> of this until we reached the incorrect upcurb. And since, coincidentally,
> this began shortly after the township had realigned some of the
> intersections, I assumed that I had been lined up incorrectyly and given
> him
> the "wrong" Signals. Then he started doing this on busy streets. Of course,
> I realized this and put him back on track. When a trainer came down, Sport
> actually demonstrated this behavior in front of her. (AS many of you know,
> a
> dog seems to know when a trainer is around and often doesn't demonstrate
> the
> behavior in question.) She took him back to the school and attempted to
> correct this problem. The staff determined that Sport would perform
> correctly if he were given a food reward at the beginning and end of each
> block. I joked with the trainer that I'd wind up with a very obese dog
> unless I carried his breakfast with me. Needless to say, I retired the dog
> and brought him back home as a pet.
>
> Of course, each dog is different. What stresses one dog may be stimulating
> for another, and there are as many ways to respond to stressas there are
> dogs. I hope this helps by giving you some other thoughts.
>
> Toni
>
> P.S. Regarding sniffing, I find my dogs sniff when they are bored. If their
> in a new area or working around other dogs, they're so excited, they have
> no
> time to sniff.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 5:09 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
>
> Robert,
>
> That's it exactly.  a bit of stress is a good thing.  If Monty didn't dance
> around in circles with anticipation when I picked up his harness I'd be
> worried.  I also like him to be a bit wary of cars, drop offs and
> construction sites.  It keeps him alert, on his toes and ready to do what
> he
> needs to do.  If he had zero stress when working he'd be bored and falling
> asleep on the street corner.  Okay the falling asleep is a bit of an
> exaggeration.  I view it like the stress a person might feel before the
> take
> the field for the football playoffs or something.  Your pumped up, ready to
> go, but with just a touch of anxiety.  that's normal.
>
> The line between that normal, healthy anticipation variety of stress and
> the
> other variety of anxious, nervous unhealthy stress is a fine one.
> I'm hoping folks here have some insight into defining just where that line
> is.  and maybe more importantly what to do when your on the wrong side of
> it.
>
> Thoughts?
> Julie
>
>
> On 11/12/2012 2:14 PM, Robert Hooper wrote:
>> Hello Julie:
>>
>> I will first speak to your inquiry regarding "how much stress is too much
> stress".
>> I, like most everyone on this list, view the human-dog team as exactly
> that--a team. Of course, there is a pack hierarchy, but when the dog is in
> harness, the two are much closer to being equal members of the same team. I
> say "almost" because I don't want to portray an unrealistic and maudlin
> view
> of what a guide team is. Because we humans have the greater skill in
> leadership and decision making, we will always (or should always) assume
> the
> role of leader, even when working the dog. However, think of yourself as a
> teacher, and remember that the dog is a dynamic, living creature that can
> feel stress, pain, joy, etc. Julie, I know that you know this, and thinking
> of a relationship in this way can help answer your question.
>> Because we don't view dogs as tools, we therefore know we have an ethical
> obligation to their well-being. Thus, I wouldn't ask my dog to work when
> doing so causes him unhealthy stress. Of course, some level of stress is
> necessary and healthy for learning and work, but there is a definite
> curve--that is, the benefits of stress increase with stress only so far,
> and
> then they start going the other way.
>> We want our dogs to be happy and to enjoy their work; we don't want to
> make them think that they are being forced to do anything against their
> wills. They aren't slaves, they are companions, partners, and family
> members--and if they aren't enjoying or taking pleasure from their work,
> then I don't think one should continue pressing them to do it.
>> Julie: as you know Monty best, you can best determine what is making him
> happy and what is making him anxious or stressed. If he loves his normal
> work, or seems to respond to it in a manner normal for him, then I would
> guess that he still enjoys it. If you are noticing that this abnormal
> behavior is only occurring when you participate in these conventions,
> meetings, etc., then you could probably conclude that this amount of work
> is
> too stressful to be enjoyable to him. Therefore, you can make other
> arrangements for him when you need to travel.
>> I want Bailey to enjoy his work--I know that there are probably days when
> he doesn't enjoy it as much, or when he isn't as sharp as usual, but so
> long
> as he enjoys it, and it isn't causing him undue stress, I will gladly give
> him work to do. I know you will make the best decision, as you have far
> more
> experience with dogs than I do. I do hope that Monty continues to work well
> and happily for many more years.
>> Sincerely,
>> Robert Hooper
>> Hooper.90 at buckeyemail.osu.edu
>> The Ohio State University, Department of Psychology; Department of
>> Neuroscience
>> 572 Stinchcomb Drive #3
>> Columbus, Ohio 43202
>> (740) 856-8195
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
>> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 2:26 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] stress, how much is too much?
>>
>> Thanks!  Those are reactions to stress that I wouldn't have thought of.
>> It makes sense though.  I like to go to bed early when I've had a rough
> day.
>>
>> I think it's important, especially for the new handlers, to recognize
> stress/anxiety at it's first signs.  then the situation can be managed or
> extra encouragement provided to the dog before the problem escalates into a
> huge ordeal.  I think knowing when your dog has had enough and what to do
> about it is very important stuff.
>> Do the schools provide a seminar or something on noticing stress signals
> from you dog?  What about how to calm a stressed dog?
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/12/2012 11:35 AM, Tracy Carcione wrote:
>>> Sometimes, if we're away at a festival or convention, and Ben has
>>> worked from morning to night for a couple days, I can tell that he's
>>> wants a break.  If we're out late, he starts looking toward the door,
>>> or turning forcefully towards our room.
>>> During class at TSE, on the weekend before the third week, he just
>>> shut down.  He wouldn't get up when I called him.  He tried to crawl
>>> under the bed and hide when I picked up his leash.  It was very
>>> upsetting.  But I learned then that his reaction to stress is to
>>> sleep.  If I let him rest, leave him in peace for a while, he's back to
> his usual self.
>>> Tracy
>>>> I'm wondering how your dog's show that they are stressed and how
>>>> much is too much?
>>>>
>>>> a bit of background...a few months ago I went to an all day meeting
>>>> out of town.  This involved about 8 hours of car travel there, an
>>>> overnight hotel stay, the all day meeting, another hotel stay and
>>>> the car ride home.  Monty has done all of these sorts of things before
> and since.
>>>> Before this weekend he showed few signs of stress and they were minor.
>>>> However for some reason still unknown to me Monty had a tough time
>>>> this particular weekend.  His signs of stress included: looking at
>>>> everything incessantly, startling at noises, lip licking, difficulty
>>>> relaxing  at relief breaks, shaking and pulling like a crazed maniac in
> harness.
>>>>
>>>> For me his signs of stress were pretty high.  If he had continued at
>>>> that level I would have stopped working him.  We have struggled off
>>>> and on for the past few months with smaller episodes of stress/anxiety.
>>>> Overall things have improved dramatically.  Occasionally he will do
>>>> the lip licking and the looking at everything, but he's not at a
>>>> level that I feel is risky to his or my health or  safety.
>>>>
>>>> Recent messages to the list and my own situation caused me to think
>>>> about and ask the questions: How much is too much?  What would cause
>>>> you to quit working a dog completely? What would cause you to quit
>>>> working a dog in a particular situation?
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16