[nagdu] Restored vision

Thu Nov 29 18:20:27 UTC 2012

Hi Julie M.
I remember reading in the Prudence guide dog books, that the author got
her sight back, a little, but she would still use her guide dog and close
her eyes, because otherwise it was very confusing.
I know Mike May, of Sendero fame, got his sight back to some degree at
some point, but he uses a guide dog now.
So you and I understand each others points.

> Haha well, I should have said I understand where she is coming from.
> Blindness is definitely an inconvenience.
>
> But realistically, if I suddently had my sight restored today, I would
> not magicly be able to read or drive.  It would cause a serious
> disruption in my life to have to learn to do all those things.  I'd
> have to learn to read music all over again!
>
> Also think about the psychological impact.  We are used to traveling
> with dogs or canes.  I feel wrong when I don't have one of those in my
> hand when I'm traveling outside.  All the things we are used to doing,
> we would be expected to give up: screenreaders, braille, audio
> books...  Of course, I'm sure we wouldn't be expected to give them up
> completely, but imagine the pressure we would be under to begin
> learning print and driving cars.
>
> I completely understand the other point-of-view on this one,
> especially when I can't find a ride or can't tell when an outfit looks
> good, but I believe that I was created this way for a reason.  I
> seriously believe that.  I have had my whole life to get used to who I
> am, and I wouldn't change it.  Blindness is a part of me, one of the
> characteristics I possess.  I would be a different person, and I'm not
> willing to make that change so suddenly and so dramatically.
>
> On 11/29/12, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Julie, I am prety much in agreement with Tracy here. Don't you suffer
>> some
>> indignities from time to time? Aren't there incredible inconveniences
>> that
>> you would give anything to have if it were a perfect world.
>> Transportation,
>> for instance, is an ongoing struggle for blind guys. As Rebecca said,
>> I'd
>> like the perk of having it readily at my fingertips, so to speak. No, I
>> don't long to get sight that I've never had because, realistically, that
>> would have trama just as losing your sight would, but there are things,
>> like
>> transportation, that I covet. And I grow weary of the invasion of my
>> privacy, too. What kind of dog? How long have you had him? What's his
>> name?
>> What kind is he? Those are innocent questions that are leveled at me,
>> interrupting conversations that I am having with others about religion,
>> politics, friends, family, the weather, books. And then, beyond that,
>> the
>> other day at the airport, a woman asked me the reason for my blindness.
>> Was
>> it illness or what? Really now, when you don't even know us, do you ask
>> that
>> kind of questions? It's OK to do that if the person has a disability,
>> though
>> manners would prevail if the person you encountered was "normal" and had
>> no
>> disability. So, though my blindness is mostly not an issue, I would
>> trade it
>> in for some kind of privacy. And the woman was just saying, "Why would I
>> fake a disability just so my dog could be with me." Anyhow, nuf of me.
>> *smile*
>>
>>
>> CL
>>
>> On Nov 29, 2012, at 9:06 AM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Tracy.
>>> I don't really want to be able to see, but I'd sure like the
>>> convienence
>>> of being able to see.
>>> I broke a Christmas dcoration yesterday and it was a pain in the butt
>>> figuring out first if it was broken (it sounded like it might be but I
>>> wasn't sure) and then cleaning it up.
>>> Reading print would be nice not because its print but because that's
>>> what
>>> most of the world uses, and they use it in real time, the ticker on the
>>> tv, sports scores at a game, signs that get updated quickly, that sort
>>> of
>>> thing.
>>> So yes, I do get what the woman in the article is saying.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tracy
>>> Carcione
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 9:59 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs provoke resentment, possible
>>> rule
>>> changes
>>>
>>> Julie M, I understand what you're saying.  But I think I understand
>>> what
>>> the person quoted was saying, too.  A friend of mine with low vision
>>> tells
>>> me that people often act as if he's just pretending to be blind, as if
>>> there were so many privileges given to blind guys or something.
>>> I'm OK with being blind, but it can be very annoying.  I'm not bringing
>>> my
>>> Benny with me because he's a wonderful companion, which he is.  But I'm
>>> bringing him to help me get where I'm going more quickly and easily,
>>> and
>>> to keep me from getting run over by some idiot who's not paying
>>> attention.
>>> And, well, I think I would give up having a guide dog, if it meant I
>>> could
>>> drive and read print as easily as sighted people can.
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>>
>>>> It is a very good article, except...
>>>>
>>>> "These people should be grateful they don't have a disability,"
>>>> Rappaport
>>>> said. "Do they think we want to be disabled so we can take our dogs
>>>> anywhere? Don't they realize we would trade our service dogs to get
>>>> rid
>>>> of
>>>> our disabilities?"
>>>>
>>>> I don't blame this woman for her opinion, but she does not speak for
>>>> the entire disability community.  Using that quote like that just
>>>> erked me because it was right at the end of the article--the final
>>>> stamp, if you will.  I don't want the world thinking I would trade in
>>>> my dog to be able to see.  I'm comfortable being a person with a
>>>> disability and would not trade in my guide for something I've never
>>>> had in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> Please, please don't think I'm judging her or hating...  That was just
>>>> my reaction to the use of that quote and the generalization.
>>>>
>>>> On 11/28/12, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
>>>>> Lyn,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for saying that so very well!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll be honest. The nitpicky, legalistic, etc., etc., part of me is
>>>>> offended as all get out by people taking their perfect pets where my
>>>>> perfect (except for when she's not!) guide dog can go by law.
>>>>> However,
>>>>> realistically, where is the actual problem?
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I look at all the offered solutions to the actual non-problem,
>>>>> and
>>>>> my hair stands on end. Each and every one of them will cause me, and
>>>>> not
>>>>> only me, a problem. If not lots of problems! Thank you, but no! /lol/
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, I haven't heard the latest on the sitch over in Portland where I
>>>>> don't live anymore. But apparently, the solution to problems with
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> on the transit system who don't belong there is to check licenses and
>>>>> vaccination records. Hm... They have, apparently, caught some
>>>>> unlicensed/unvaccinated dogs, so yay them! The county gets more fees!
>>>>> Yay! I'm still scratching my head wondering what effect either has on
>>>>> ensuring a licensed, vaccinated pet doesn't chomp my poodle guide
>>>>> next
>>>>> time I"m over there riding a bus or train. Or that it doesn't just
>>>>> harass my guide so we have to get off where we don't want to be while
>>>>> she is so over-harassed she can't work for the next half hour. Or...
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> just saying. The transit company is certainly being *seen* to be
>>>>> doing
>>>>> something, and they are very impressed with themselves, or so it also
>>>>> seems. I'm just not seeing the usefulness there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then again, what do I know? I'm blind! /snide smirk/
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, I'm still feeling kinda snotty about the entire issue, since
>>>>> within the last year, I did have to take my dog out because of her
>>>>> reaction to a dog of some sort in a restaurant that appeared to be
>>>>> not
>>>>> in control... Only, once I got out and could take a deep breath, I
>>>>> realized that my guide dog had settled down and ceased misbehavior...
>>>>> The actual team member I had to remove for incipient aggression was,
>>>>> you
>>>>> know, me. /lol/ I was about to do someone, anyone, in however I
>>>>> could.
>>>>> It was that aggravating! Still, I would rather that someone who
>>>>> brings
>>>>> some small, floppy thing into a restaurant would notice that there
>>>>> was
>>>>> something doggish going on before she/he plops down nearby to chat
>>>>> with
>>>>> someone 3 feet from another dog while her party goes on to their
>>>>> actual
>>>>> table... And without noting that the dog has 4 feet of leash and is
>>>>> still flopping and flouncing adorably... Next to a much larger dog
>>>>> that
>>>>> has stuck its nose out from under a table and snarked at it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Honestly! My dog should not have shot to her feet, stuck her nose out
>>>>> and snarked decisively. But... If you had a 15 to 20 pound dog and a
>>>>> 55
>>>>> pound dog made noises at it, would you just, I dunno, plop down and
>>>>> chat
>>>>> without noticing anything was going on? I mean, it's like there was
>>>>> an
>>>>> Irish Wolfhound (want one!) or St. Bernard or something of uncertain
>>>>> temperament 3 feet from one of our guide dogs... Would you just,
>>>>> like,
>>>>> not even wonder if maybe you should move on a bit to be further away?
>>>>>
>>>>> Okay. So it was 2 or 3 months ago, and I am clearly just not over it.
>>>>> /lol/ I guess it's safe to say that I am no longer worried about the
>>>>> legal status of any given dog but whether or not they come
>>>>> accompanied
>>>>> by a human that is stupid enough to not notice that their dog is not
>>>>> following proper etiquette which causes another dog to not follow
>>>>> proper
>>>>> etiquette, however briefly, which sends that dog's handler into a
>>>>> tizzy
>>>>> so she has to leave the place to keep from biting anyone. Of course,
>>>>> there was the spousal unit there, in the same state of
>>>>> exhaustion/stress/exhaustion/stress as his female companions... He
>>>>> was
>>>>> the first one to be bitten by me! /lol/ Don't worry. He bites back,
>>>>> then
>>>>> we were over it. The guide dog was happy to jump in the truck, get
>>>>> home
>>>>> and collapse somewhere on her own away from her badly behaved,
>>>>> ill-tempered humans. /lol/
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/28/2012 04:31 PM, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>>>>> Tami,
>>>>>> I feel the same way - I don't care what the dog is there for as long
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> it is behaving properly and not causing negative feedback to come
>>>>>> back
>>>>>> on me. If the "fakes" keep on the low-down with their well behaved
>>>>>> "fake" service dogs, who would be the wiser?  I don't care if a well
>>>>>> trained and behaved pet is in a store, on the bus, in a restaurant -
>>>>>> just so long as it isn't creating a rukus or attacking my dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So yeah, it's the behavior that irks people not the fact a person
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> card or a vest that says "service dog".  I really don't think the
>>>>>> public
>>>>>> gives a rat's behind about if a person has a disability or not and
>>>>>> has
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> well behaved dog on the premesis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just my two cents worth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lyn and Landon
>>>>>> "Education creates tolerance towards diversity."
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tami Jarvis"
>>>>>> <tami at poodlemutt.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 4:56 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs provoke resentment,possible
>>>>>> rule
>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jenine,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for adding that. I always try to emphasize that in my own
>>>>>>> attempts at educating, because it really is key. I honestly don't
>>>>>>> care
>>>>>>> if it's a real service dog or not, so long as it behaves in public
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> we all expect our dogs to behave. Conversely, if our real service
>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>> decide to misbehave, and for some reason we can't get things under
>>>>>>> control, it is our responsibility to take our low down scurvy curs
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> the nearest door as quickly as possible. Or be thrown out on our
>>>>>>> ears.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's actually the gist of my current spiel, since it seems to get
>>>>>>> the point across more effectively than more delicate approaches
>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>> tried, especially if I'm speaking to a business owner or someone on
>>>>>>> "the other side" of the service dog equation. "Oh. That makes
>>>>>>> sense,"
>>>>>>> is a good response in my book. /smile/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ah, well. The debate will go on and it will be good for us. As an
>>>>>>> owner-trainer, I just get extra snarky sometimes because of how
>>>>>>> requiring me to pay a bunch o' money to get a nice piece of
>>>>>>> laminated
>>>>>>> paper will solve the problem of frauds... I can pass that off about
>>>>>>> 9
>>>>>>> times running, then just go nuts at repeat #10. On the local list
>>>>>>> scene, I'm kinda at #10 plus before I have a chance to get the nuts
>>>>>>> out of my system, so... Probably someone should check to ensure I'm
>>>>>>> safe to be out in public or something in case of bad behavior.
>>>>>>> /lol/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/25/2012 04:42 PM, Jenine Stanley wrote:
>>>>>>>> Julie is correct. The only thing this article did leave out was
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> requirement for any service animal to be under control of the
>>>>>>>> handler
>>>>>>>> at all
>>>>>>>> times. This means any service animal regardless of its training
>>>>>>>> origins.
>>>>>>>> It's the controlled behavior that earns us the right to have our
>>>>>>>> animals
>>>>>>>> working with us in public, not the mere presence of the animal or
>>>>>>>> presence
>>>>>>>> of task training for such an animal. That's a point that is often
>>>>>>>> overlooked.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jenine Stanley
>>>>>>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>>>>>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie
>>>>>>>> J.
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 7:14 PM
>>>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>>> Users
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs provoke resentment,
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> rule
>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tami,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Definitely read the article.  It's good, accurate, addresses the
>>>>>>>> big
>>>>>>>> issues,
>>>>>>>> mentions owner training as a viable option and explains the laws
>>>>>>>> correctly.
>>>>>>>> I was very pleasantly surprised.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Julie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2012 5:41 PM, Tami Jarvis wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Okay... I should read the article before commenting. But my
>>>>>>>>> comment
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> that I just can't read another of these articles right now. Our
>>>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>>>> transit company made a decision about how to deal with "the dog
>>>>>>>>> problem" here... I'm reading what the locals have to say about
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> big move...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I get over being too irritable on the subject to talk about
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> of it without cursing, I'll come here to ask some questions or
>>>>>>>>> something.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mutter, mumble, grumble... /loll/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tami
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/25/2012 01:31 PM, Ginger Kutsch wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Fake service dogs provoke resentment, possible rule changes
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By Christine Stapleton
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Source:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/lifestyles/pets/fake-service-dogs-p
>>>>>>>>>> rovoke-
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> resentment-possible-rule/nTD9C/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Macy and Milo, blond Labs with constantly wagging tails, look
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> goof off like the other pooches at the dog park.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Their owner, 20-year-old college student Shoshana Rappaport,
>>>>>>>>>> looks
>>>>>>>>>> like the
>>>>>>>>>> other doting dog moms, telling her dogs to knock it off when
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> play too
>>>>>>>>>> rough and smothering them with hugs when they are worn out.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But Macy and Milo are not like the other dogs at the dog park.
>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>> Rappaport turns her head to the right and her neon orange
>>>>>>>>>> hearing
>>>>>>>>>> aid is
>>>>>>>>>> visible, it is obvious that she also is not like the other dog
>>>>>>>>>> moms
>>>>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>>>>> park.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Macy and Milo are service dogs. They have been trained to alert
>>>>>>>>>> Rappaport,
>>>>>>>>>> who is profoundly deaf and also has vertigo, to vital sounds
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> many of us
>>>>>>>>>> take for granted - car horns, door bells or a stranger
>>>>>>>>>> approaching
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> behind. Shoshana also uses the dogs to support, stabilize and
>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>> her
>>>>>>>>>> during vertigo episodes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Because of the Americans with Disabilities Act, Macy and Milo
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> wherever Rappaport goes - including restaurants, hotels,
>>>>>>>>>> taxicabs
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> theaters. Also because of the ADA, Rappaport doesn't have to
>>>>>>>>>> prove
>>>>>>>>>> she is
>>>>>>>>>> disabled - a provision in the law designed to protect the
>>>>>>>>>> privacy
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> with disabilities and to prevent discrimination.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, all any dog owner needs to do to be eligible for access
>>>>>>>>>> privileges
>>>>>>>>>> guaranteed under the ADA is to say that the dog is a service
>>>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> has led some dog owners who do not have disabilities and whose
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> are not
>>>>>>>>>> service dogs to use the ADA as a loophole to take their pets
>>>>>>>>>> everywhere they
>>>>>>>>>> go.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As more dogs are being trained to assist people whose
>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
>>>>>>>>>> are not
>>>>>>>>>> readily apparent, such as deafness, post-traumatic stress
>>>>>>>>>> disorder
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> diabetes, fake service dogs are seen more in public places, said
>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>> Ensminger, a New York attorney and author of the books "Service
>>>>>>>>>> Dogs in
>>>>>>>>>> America" and "Police and Military Dogs."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "I think it's definitely increasing," said Ensminger, who said
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> receiving more requests for interviews and more reports of fake
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> on his
>>>>>>>>>> blog, The Dog Law Reporter. Among the most recent reports, show
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>> passed off as emotional support dogs, he said.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The phenomenon can infuriate people with real disabilities who
>>>>>>>>>> rely
>>>>>>>>>> on their
>>>>>>>>>> highly trained dogs to lead as normal and active a life as
>>>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "For everybody that needs a service dog, it's a slap in their
>>>>>>>>>> face
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> somebody to go on-line and get a service dog vest so they can go
>>>>>>>>>> into a
>>>>>>>>>> store or a restaurant with their dog," said Joe Rainey, a Marine
>>>>>>>>>> who was
>>>>>>>>>> wounded in Vietnam.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rainey, of Greenacres, relies on his service dog, Tanker, who
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> mobility and stability training to assist Rainey when he is
>>>>>>>>>> unsteady or
>>>>>>>>>> cannot get up. "I am a Marine and it's like someone pretending
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> Marine who was wounded while serving their country."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The problem stems in part from the protections for the disabled
>>>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>>>> up under
>>>>>>>>>> ADA. Businesses can ask only two questions when a dog enters
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> establishment: Is your dog a service dog? What tasks has the dog
>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>> trained to perform?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Businesses cannot require special identification for the dog or
>>>>>>>>>> ask
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> the person's disability. It does not matter whether the dog is
>>>>>>>>>> wearing a
>>>>>>>>>> service-dog vest or the owner's disability is visible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "A business person is very limited in what they can do when
>>>>>>>>>> someone
>>>>>>>>>> declares
>>>>>>>>>> they have a service animal," said Geoff Luebkemann, vice
>>>>>>>>>> president
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association. "The average
>>>>>>>>>> restaurant
>>>>>>>>>> owner or
>>>>>>>>>> hotelier just isn't versed in this and they are concerned they
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be the
>>>>>>>>>> subject of an ADA lawsuit."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Other laws supersede the ADA when it comes to air travel and
>>>>>>>>>> housing,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> the service-dog issue is posing special problems for airlines,
>>>>>>>>>> especially
>>>>>>>>>> those that no longer allow pets in the cargo hold.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many passengers falsely believe that the ADA covers air travel
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> surprised to learn they must abide by the stricter rules of the
>>>>>>>>>> Air
>>>>>>>>>> Carrier
>>>>>>>>>> Access Act if they want to fly with their dog. Unlike the ADA,
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> Air
>>>>>>>>>> Carrier Access Act allows airlines to require passengers with
>>>>>>>>>> emotional
>>>>>>>>>> support and psychiatric service dogs to prove they are disabled
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> their dog is trained to assist them.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Many airlines require a letter on the letterhead of a licensed
>>>>>>>>>> psychiatrist,
>>>>>>>>>> psychologist or clinical social worker stating that the
>>>>>>>>>> passenger
>>>>>>>>>> has a
>>>>>>>>>> medically recognized mental or emotional disability and is under
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> professional's care. The letter must be dated within one year of
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> flight
>>>>>>>>>> and also include the state in which the professional is
>>>>>>>>>> licensed.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "People are going to be hard pressed to get psychologists and
>>>>>>>>>> psychiatrists
>>>>>>>>>> to sign letters," Ensminger said. "I think this is an area where
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> going to see a lot of friction."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nevertheless, there are enough passengers trying to board with
>>>>>>>>>> emotional
>>>>>>>>>> support and psychiatric service dogs - which fly in the cabin
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> free -
>>>>>>>>>> that agents at ticket counters have been provided written
>>>>>>>>>> guidelines
>>>>>>>>>> on the
>>>>>>>>>> law and the U.S. Department of Transportation has opened up
>>>>>>>>>> rule-making for
>>>>>>>>>> changes in rules on allowing such dogs on planes.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ensminger owns a therapy dog, which is trained to go to schools,
>>>>>>>>>> hospitals,
>>>>>>>>>> nursing homes and other institutions to comfort and offer
>>>>>>>>>> companionship.
>>>>>>>>>> Therapy dogs are not protected by the ADA or the Air Carriers
>>>>>>>>>> Act
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> although he knows he could pass her off as a service dog and fly
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> her to
>>>>>>>>>> his winter home in Arizona, he does not. Instead, he drives the
>>>>>>>>>> 2,600
>>>>>>>>>> miles.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "To be honest, I've been tempted," Ensminger said. "But she is a
>>>>>>>>>> therapy
>>>>>>>>>> dog, not a service dog."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When it comes to allowing service animals in condos and
>>>>>>>>>> apartments
>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>> no-pet or weight-limit rules, the ADA is again trumped by
>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>> federal
>>>>>>>>>> law - the Fair Housing Act.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Unlike the ADA, which defines dogs and occasionally miniature
>>>>>>>>>> horses as
>>>>>>>>>> service animals, the FHA is broader and protects other species,
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> as cats
>>>>>>>>>> and birds.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just as restaurants and airlines are seeing more unqualified
>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>> dogs,
>>>>>>>>>> landlords and condo associations say tenants are seeking
>>>>>>>>>> exceptions
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> their pets under the FHA.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "The trend has gone up and down since this service dog issue
>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>> arose,"
>>>>>>>>>> said West Palm Beach attorney John Sheppard, who specializes in
>>>>>>>>>> condominium
>>>>>>>>>> and homeowner association litigation. "When it initially came
>>>>>>>>>> up,
>>>>>>>>>> there was
>>>>>>>>>> a fairly high standard the owner had to meet to keep the dog."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Those standards loosened and "if they could show a doctor's
>>>>>>>>>> prescription
>>>>>>>>>> saying they needed a dog for some reason, that was enough to
>>>>>>>>>> pass
>>>>>>>>>> muster,"
>>>>>>>>>> Sheppard said. The pendulum is swinging back and now condominium
>>>>>>>>>> associations can ask specific questions about the disability and
>>>>>>>>>> how the
>>>>>>>>>> animal assists, Sheppard said.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Still, he said, "There are people who come in and have a dog and
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> say,
>>>>>>>>>> 'It's my sister's dog. I'm just watching it.' Then they come out
>>>>>>>>>> and say
>>>>>>>>>> they have a disability."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is there a solution?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Corey Hudson, secretary of Assistance Dogs International, which
>>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> well-known accreditation program that sets minimum standards for
>>>>>>>>>> behavior
>>>>>>>>>> and training, suggests some form of government-sanctioned
>>>>>>>>>> certification for
>>>>>>>>>> service dogs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "We all get drivers' licenses after somebody impartially figures
>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> you are capable of driving," Hudson said.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ensminger sees problems with that approach. Who will set those
>>>>>>>>>> standards and
>>>>>>>>>> how much will credentials cost? Professionally trained service
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> can cost
>>>>>>>>>> more than $20,000. Each dog is individually trained to meet the
>>>>>>>>>> specific
>>>>>>>>>> needs of its owner's disabilities. Many people with disabilities
>>>>>>>>>> are on
>>>>>>>>>> limited budgets and train their dogs themselves.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "What I'm afraid of is that if the government doesn't want to
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>> business and turns it over to private entities, that will mean
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> essentially have to pay a significant amount of money to some
>>>>>>>>>> organization
>>>>>>>>>> that will bless their service dog," Ensminger said. "I see that
>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>> a big
>>>>>>>>>> problem."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Rappaport, who herself trained Macy and Milo, has her own
>>>>>>>>>> solution:
>>>>>>>>>> confronting pet owners and businesses when she encounters
>>>>>>>>>> misbehaving
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> wearing service dog vests.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "These people should be grateful they don't have a disability,"
>>>>>>>>>> Rappaport
>>>>>>>>>> said. "Do they think we want to be disabled so we can take our
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> anywhere? Don't they realize we would trade our service dogs to
>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>> rid of
>>>>>>>>>> our disabilities?"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Service dog laws
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Three federal laws grant service dogs special privileges:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Americans with Disabilities Act: Gives service dogs access to
>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>> places,
>>>>>>>>>> such as restaurants, stores and offices. Owner may not be
>>>>>>>>>> questioned
>>>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>>>> disability but may be asked about the tasks the dog performs.
>>>>>>>>>> Harnesses or
>>>>>>>>>> leashes must be worn at all times unless it interferes with the
>>>>>>>>>> dog's
>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Air Carrier Act: Enables service dogs to fly in cabin of
>>>>>>>>>> airplane.
>>>>>>>>>> Passengers with emotional support or psychiatric service dogs
>>>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> asked
>>>>>>>>>> to provide proof of disability and treatment from mental health
>>>>>>>>>> professional.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Fair Housing Act: Allows people with disabilities to keep
>>>>>>>>>> emotional-support
>>>>>>>>>> animals, even when landlord's or association's policy prohibits
>>>>>>>>>> pets.
>>>>>>>>>> Allows
>>>>>>>>>> limited questioning about disability and animal support.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Types of support animals
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Federal laws give access privileges to service dogs, including
>>>>>>>>>> guide and
>>>>>>>>>> hearing dogs. Therapy dogs and emotional support animals can be
>>>>>>>>>> denied
>>>>>>>>>> access to public places, airplanes and housing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Guide dogs: Highly disciplined and trained service dogs. Assist
>>>>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired people by avoiding obstacles, stopping at
>>>>>>>>>> curbs
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> steps,
>>>>>>>>>> and negotiating traffic.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hearing dogs: Service dogs trained to alert the deaf and hard of
>>>>>>>>>> hearing to
>>>>>>>>>> common sounds, such as a doorbell, telephone, baby crying or
>>>>>>>>>> smoke
>>>>>>>>>> alarm.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Service dogs: Provide assistance unrelated to vision or hearing
>>>>>>>>>> disabilities. Individually trained to meet unique physical,
>>>>>>>>>> medical
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> psychiatric needs of owner.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Therapy dogs: Provide comfort and companionship to people in
>>>>>>>>>> hospitals,
>>>>>>>>>> nursing homes and other institutions. To encourage petting and
>>>>>>>>>> avoid
>>>>>>>>>> confusion with service dogs, often do not wear vests seen on
>>>>>>>>>> service
>>>>>>>>>> dogs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Emotional support animal: Domesticated animals - not necessarily
>>>>>>>>>> dogs
>>>>>>>>>> - that
>>>>>>>>>> provide therapeutic companionship and affection. No training
>>>>>>>>>> required
>>>>>>>>>> beyond
>>>>>>>>>> that of a pet.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40neb.rr.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this message.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>> Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2629/5418 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>> 11/25/12
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/jeninems%40wowway.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McG
>>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
>>>> of Missouri recording secretary,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
>>>> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>>>
>>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>>> life."
>>>> John 3:16
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40tasc.com
>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message and any attachments or files
>>> transmitted with it (collectively, the "Message") are intended only for
>>> the addressee and may contain information that is privileged,
>>> proprietary
>>> and/or prohibited from disclosure by law or contract. If you are not
>>> the
>>> intended recipient: (a) please do not read, copy or retransmit the
>>> Message; (b) permanently delete and/or destroy all electronic and hard
>>> copies of the Message; (c) notify us by return email; and (d) you are
>>> hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of the
>>> Message is strictly prohibited.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
>  Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>