[nagdu] First dog concerns

[marilyn]

Hi Jenny,
I agree with you . when a dog acts up there is usually a reason. That is sad 
as the poor dog was suffering. I am glad they did find out what was wrong.
Marilyn and Anna
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenny Keller" <jlperdue3 at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 9:34 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] First dog concerns


>I don't agree with the newspaper thing, which the writer said was used.
>
> I don't like Southeastern's methods either having been through what I've 
> gone through with them.  But they use the tapping on the obstacles and a 
> leash correction and a tap of the foot on a missed step of curb and the 
> command watch when they are training the dog.
>
> I don't think any dog should be struck on the nose with anything.
>
> there was a woman that I went to school with, which one of the people on 
> the list knows, but maybe does not know this about her first dog.  the dog 
> was very unruly, and they tried everything from prong and pinch collars. 
> No matter what they did, nothing worked.
>
> southeastern does not use gentle leaders or haul ties, so they didn't do 
> that.  the dog was discovered to have a bad tooth, and they thought that 
> was why he was acting so bad.  this was three weeks into the class.  When 
> the vet x-rayed the dog's mouth to find out how bad the tooth was, it was 
> discovered that the dog's NOSE, and you read that right, nose, was broken, 
> and no one, not the trainers, or anyone, knew about it.
>
> It had been corrected, and corrected, and corrected, as firmly as possible 
> with many different collars and strengths.  But the real problem was that 
> the dog had to be in excruciating pain.
>
> You can bop a dog in the head with a soft instrument.  But the nose? 
> There is no excuse for that at all, and I consider that abuse.
>
> Jenny
> On Sep 7, 2012, at 1:45 AM, avapup.7 at gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I mean, don't some schools at least train obstacle avoidance by smacking 
>> the object ( not the dog! ) so that the dog associates the obstacle with 
>> a loud unpleasant noise, thus avoiding it in the future? Or, if that's 
>> not possible, say a dog in early-ish training is going to run her handler 
>> into a glass window, the trainer ( the dog isn't placed yet, just in 
>> training ) will either use a sharp vocal correction or slap her or his 
>> leg, making the dog-in-training avoid that window or similar ones in the 
>> future? Or is that all outdated training now?
>>
>> I didn't like hearing that The Seeing Eye was hitting dogs with 
>> newspapers, but if they're using a foam ball type thing, I don't think 
>> that would hurt the dog. I wonder if more traffic training done by the 
>> trainers could eliminate the need for this? But when I think about it, 
>> and dogs playing sure do hit each other a lot harder than a gentle tap! 
>> And if it saves the life of both human and dog, I don't see anything 
>> wrong with a foam type thing tapping a dog to teach or reinforce to the 
>> dog - don't approach that car in the street!!
>>
>> Ava and Cocoa
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2012, at 5:14 PM, "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> No worries!  They NEVER harm a dog doing this to teach traffic to our 
>>> dogs. TSE uses a padded wand - they showed it to us - and give a very 
>>> quick poke. The dog is startled by this because they don't expect it and 
>>> they learn to watch for cars. Don't know what other schools use to teach 
>>> this.
>>>
>>> Years ago, dog or animal training was much more harsh and even what we 
>>> would currently call abusive.  Over the years training has gotten much 
>>> gentler and the dogs are not harmed during their training.  They don't 
>>> even have to do this to every dog - only the harder ones who don't 
>>> respond to less in-their-face type of training.
>>>
>>> Teaching respect for moving traffic is truely a life-or-death thing and 
>>> the dogs MUST learn this so we are safe with being guided by them. 
>>> Actually, the dog thinks the CAR smacked them and never even realize 
>>> that the trainer, who is driving, poked them with that wand! Any dog who 
>>> can't learn traffic safely is dropped from the program.
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>
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