[nagdu] Fwd: [Juno-l] Message from Graham Buck

Tue Aug 6 01:21:24 UTC 2013

Marsha,

I was taking some notes for future reference as I read. I don't use 
leash corrections, though, so would have to modify things a bit. With 
more purely positive-reinforcement based methods, the thing is to make 
ignoring the food and doing something else more rewarding. Using high 
value food rewards to teach food manners really does work. /smile/

I wish I had known about Rox'E's "food zen" method from the start, but 
I've employed some similar techniques over time. I started working with 
Mitzi on food distractions from the beginning but it was all trial and 
error, really. Some of the stuff we did at home to just teach her some 
manners and discipline did carry over with temptations in the outer 
world, and we had to keep refining.

Mitzi is not super food motivated, so was not that difficult. Poodles 
are opportunistic scavengers, though, and enjoy a well-executed crime 
more than the fruits of the crime itself. So when she was younger, 
especially, I did find the GL handy to keep track of that adventuring 
nose! At need, I can prevent her from sniffing with it, then redirect. 
If she's being super stubborn, I can also use it to gently but firmly 
turn her fool poodle head away from what she wants. It's not the same 
kind of negative reinforcement as a true leash correction, but it is in 
effect both a barrier to her getting what she wants and something that 
makes her unhappy -- and unrewarded! /lol/ She's a great dog, but when 
she gets her stubborn on...

She will still try to make a snag for something every now and then, 
generally when she's bored. She's more likely to grab a sniff, whether 
there's something to snatch up or not. We're working on that more here, 
since her work isn't as challenging as she likes. We're getting better 
at keeping ourselves more motivated in our walking without all the 
hustle and bustle of the big city.

Don't know if that makes sense... The redirection and reward while 
removing the reward for the undesired behavior is either really simple 
or really complex, I can never tell.

Tami

On 08/05/2013 05:29 PM, Marsha Drenth wrote:
> thanks buddy for posting this. Even though my lab at this point does not have issues with food, or grabbing food. I might work on this. I would be interested to hear from the owner trainers, if they use a similar method of teaching food refusal with their dogs?
>
>
>
>
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> Marsha drenth
> Sent with my IPhone
>
> On Aug 5, 2013, at 1:00 PM, Buddy Brannan <buddy at brannan.name> wrote:
>
>> Fantastic message from one of the trainers at Guiding Eyes. Informational purposes, blah blah, no affiliation, blah blah blah.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>> From: Becky Barnes <bbarnes at guidingeyes.org>
>>> Subject: [Juno-l] Message from Graham Buck
>>> Date: August 5, 2013 at 11:10:50 AM EDT
>>> To: Juno-L <Juno-l at lists.screenreview.org>
>>>
>>> Scavenging issues
>>>
>>> Can be one of the more difficult areas to deal with at times with guides. They often will eye food under a table or on the floor.  Then usually when you start to move again, get up etc. the dog lunges and dives for the food. Initially the dog may not attempt to go for it but then when it realizes its moving away they make a quick approach to scoop it up. Many dogs seem to time the window between being successful with receiving the correction. They end up being corrected but it doesn't really change their behavior because they already got the food.
>>>
>>> Some patterning lessons help but they often don't hold once the game has ended. Negative reinforcement has to be done with a strong association to the food. Ultimately we want the dog to go into enough avoidance where they stay clear of the food and can then get reinforced for other things like going forward or getting to a curb.
>>>
>>> I would do the set up in this way. A couple of reps. With using leave it while food  is nearby but not reachable. Then move a bit closer. This time anytime the dog strains on the leash it is corrected. Start to preface it with leave it. If the dog yields to the collar pressure, orients back to the handler then praise.
>>>
>>> The next step is to try the same thing but be right at the food. If you have a sighted friend to help that would be useful for this part.  If the dog still attempts to go for the food the correction level is raised. The sighted person can quickly place their foot over the food before the dog gets it. Always remember this is a non negotiable area so you can go to a higher level correction. It's not like guide work where we are always going to ask the dog to get us to something.
>>>
>>> The next step is to spread food all over a large space on the floor. Use something inexpensive like crackers or bread.  You can try other foods later. Now walk back and forth with the dog saying leave it at first. Then say nothing and walk back and forth. Be ready to give a high level correction. Once you can walk through and you can clearly feel the dog moving away from the food then the dog has gone into avoidance. Now it will be easier to reward the dog for good behavior.
>>>
>>> Next step would be the same scenario but instead work the dog in harness between two targets. Back and forth.  You may feel the dog go off course a bit to step around the food but we can accept that because we can turn that response down a bit in the real life scenarios.
>>>
>>> Another alternate set up system is to use flat tipper ware containers.  The ones that glad makes are good. They are not expensive and are light weight. Punch or cut small holes in the containers.  Fill with food  of choice. This works well for more desirable morsels.  Do the exercises in the same way. Work up to taking the lids off.
>>>
>>> I would suggest practicing at least once or twice a week to be sure you have the response.   We are trying to create enough avoidance without shutting the dog down.  With that said if you nag the dog or pull the dog away it will just create more resistance and actually build drive to get to the food.   Anytime you stop to chat with someone put the dog in a down or sit. This will let that dog know that you don't need it for anything right now and frees you up to talk. Eventually as the dog improves you can have the dog be out of a control position. For example just standing or hanging near you but not straining on the collar.
>>>
>>> This part of training must be very clear to the dog or else the poor behaviors will continue.  Hope this is useful to folks.
>>>
>>> Graham
>>>
>>> Becky Barnes Davidson
>>> Manager, Consumer Outreach * Graduate Support
>>> Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>>> 914-243-2210
>>> 800-942-0149 ex. 2210
>>> bbarnes at guidingeyes.org
>>> www.guidingeyes.org
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> Juno-l  is A  supportive  communications forum for  Guide Dog  users, and  Puppy
>>> Raisers.  Founded and supported by  Guiding Eyes for the Blind  Graduates.
>>
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