[nagdu] how much is too much?

[Ann Edie]

Hi, Julie,

First of all, if the dog was actually being trained as a therapy dog, and was just starting its training at that, what was it doing in a restaurant at all?  Therapy dogs, in my understanding, are those dogs which are brought to hospitals, nursing homes, senior residences, children's homes, and other facilities to interact with and provide social opportunities and human-animal comfort interactions to people who are elderly, ill, or disabled, or are sometimes used by therapists such as psychologists in the practice of their disciplines.  Again, in my understanding, the people who train and use therapy dogs have no right to take them into places of public accommodation, either during training or during the time when they are serving as therapy dogs.  In fact, they don't even have the right to take the dogs into the places where they act as therapy dogs except by permission of the facility management, and usually have to show documents such as therapy dog certificates, health certificates, etc.  So I would certainly question why that person had the dog in a restaurant under any circumstances.  Again, it is my understanding that, for example, if a trainer/handler is traveling with a therapy or search and rescue dog, and stops at a restaurant or other place of public accommodation, they can only bring the animal into the facility with the permission of the facility management.  There is no right of access as there is for a PWD accompanied by a service animal, much less for a trainer with a dog-in-training.

Secondly, as a trainer yourself, I'm sure you were wondering why a trainer would bring a new trainee into a public place where she could not control the distraction level and the training situation.  It is obvious that this situation was far beyond the dog's stimulation threshold, and any trainer worth her salt would have removed the dog from the situation immediately rather than staying for 30 minutes while the dog practiced growling and barking and learned that going places with its trainer resulted in punishment and stress.  (Myself, I would be quickly re-evaluating whether that dog had the temperament to be a therapy dog at all!)

I'm certainly not one to complain or say anything to people who bring well-behaved pets into public places where pets are allowed, or even where they are not allowed.  And I wouldn't even say anything to someone who brought an ill-behaved service dog or pet into a public place unless the situation were actually dangerous to myself, my guide, or to other people or animals in the environment.  But I do think the business was being taken advantage of in this situation, and I might have quietly informed the management after the person with the supposed therapy dog left, of the difference between a therapy dog and a service dog and of their rights under the ADA with respect to persons with disabilities accompanied by service dogs and what to do in the case where an ill-behaved animal is in their facility.

I actually have an ongoing situation of a similar type right now--
One of the directors in my agency has an adopted pet dog which she was hoping to use as a therapy dog and which she regularly brings to the agency office as an "office dog."  The dog has definite emotional/temperament issues and barks and growls at many, but not all, people who enter the office or walk past the door to the directors' office.  The dog has never actually bitten or attacked anyone, as far as I know, and the director has done lots of desensitization work and various types of "training", all the way from positive reinforcement and classical conditioning, to use of a shock collar (and possibly having the dog's vocal cords surgically cut--I don't know this for sure, it just sounds that way to me.)  The director has given up on having the dog work as a therapy dog, thank goodness!  But she still does bring the dog to the office regularly, and the dog still barks and growls at people--she barks at me, probably because of my cane, and she barks and growls at my husband, probably because he is a man, but she also barks at women who do not carry canes, so who knows exactly why the dog barks!  Anyway, I would never express my opinion to my director that I think it is inappropriate for her to bring her dog to the office, even though I do believe that the dog does not contribute to a welcoming atmosphere in the office to the public, or to many of the employees, for that matter, and that it is not very professional of her to continue bringing the dog with her.  I figure she probably brings the dog because it suffers from separation anxiety if left at home, and maybe either barks constantly or is destructive.  The agency has a history of having had several other "office dogs," although those dogs were quiet and friendly, so I guess we'll just have to put up with the current dog.  The director does keep the dog in her office at least, rather than letting her wander about the building as the other dogs have done.  So I guess that is some consolation.

One more interesting question that I have about your restaurant experience is how you happened to be offered a table right next to the table where the other dog was placed?  I wonder if this was pure coincidence or whether the restaurant was actively segregating those patrons with animals in order to limit the inconvenience to other restaurant patrons?  Your table wasn't, by chance, also close to the kitchen entrance, was it?  Anyway, I think it would have been interesting if your party had requested a change of table, perhaps to a more comfortable/quiet location.

Anyway, your situation with the "therapy dog in training" was interesting.  But the whole thing smells extremely fishy to me, confirmed skeptic that I am.

Best,
Ann

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Julie J.
Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2013 10:04 AM
To: the National Association of Guide Dog Users NAGDU Mailing List
Subject: [nagdu] how much is too much?

I had an interesting thing happen when eating in a restaurant Friday night.

The place was busy so we had to wait a bit for our table.  When a table came available, the hostess came over and let us know that our table was ready, but that there was a therapy dog in training at the next table.  She wanted it to be very clear that the dog was in training.  She asked if that would be a problem for our dogs.  I was in a small group that included another guide dog user.  We both said that our dogs would be fine with another dog at the next table.  They wouldn’t react or be upset or cause a disturbance of any variety.   We let her know that it wasn’t a problem as long as the lady with the dog in training was willing and able to manage her dog appropriately.

We get to the table and get seated.  the lady with the dog in training said hello and made some other polite conversation.  Then her dog started in barking, growling and shuffling around under her table.  At first she talked to the dog, later she did correct.  She did apologize, saying that he’s only 12 months old and you can’t start training until then, so the dog is new to all of this.  She also said that normally he is very good around other dogs.  The barking and growling went on for probably half an hour, until she finished her dinner and left.  It wasn’t continuous all that time, but was consistently occurring every few minutes.  

Neither of  our two guides did anything inappropriate.  They were both lying under the table quietly minding their own business.  

So what would you have done?
Should we have asked for a different table? we would have had to wait longer should we have asked her to take the dog out?
should we have asked the restaurant staff to speak to her or ask her to take the dog out?
Was she taking care of the situation appropriately?
Should she have left earlier?
How much is too much?

Very curiously,
Julie
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