[nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get home

Sat Aug 24 10:46:21 UTC 2013

A prong will do the same thing for a dog with trachea problems as a 
martingale, and the dog will respond better to lighter leash corrections.

A nylon or leather training collar will have the same effect as the 
metal ones because it works exactly the same way.

Shanna and Diamond
On 8/23/2013 10:05 PM, minh ha wrote:
> Larry,
>
> That's really interesting that there's a cloth version of a choke
> chain. Does it work like a regular metal choke chain? I'm curious
> because my boyfriend's guide was originally on a CC, but he's
> developed some throat problems that we're still trying to figure out
> and the vet recommended letting his throat rest for a while. So we
> switched him to a martingail collar and it's helped his throat a lot,
> but he doesn't seem to react the same to leash corrections.
>
> Minh
>
> On 8/23/13, Larry D. Keeler <lkeeler at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Nicole, of course you're right! I use what folks cal the choke chain. I call
>>
>> the thing a check chain. Well, i've changed to a cloth version of the same
>> thing put out by Softlines. Anyway, if you misuse it then its not so good.
>> If you whatever tool you know properly, it shouldn't cause issues.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:43 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Equipment was RE: Changing the rules when you get home
>>
>>
>>> A lot of people I know get freaked out when people talk about pinch
>>> collars,
>>> but I don't think that it is that much of a deal. The bottom line is that
>>> any equipment can be misused; it's just sometimes easier to inadvertently
>>> misuse certain equipment than others.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug Parisian
>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 4:45 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>>
>>> Guess I've never thought of myself as changing the rules, but rather
>>> doing
>>> what I have found to be best for my dog, myself, and working both of us
>>> into
>>> the particular environment.  In Winnipeg, this can mean "gunning it"
>>> across
>>> intersections so as not to be standing with my dog's bare feet on cold
>>> cement when the temperature is minus 30 and my bus, which runs once every
>>> half hour, is at the stop where I want to board.  So, according to some
>>> ego-centric trainers (and there are at least one or two) I've broken all
>>> their hard work in terms of traffic checks.  Truth is, my reason for
>>> working
>>> with a dog guide is not primarily to keep me safe in traffic, but rather
>>> to
>>> find the best path, to avoid living or dead obstacles, etc.  When I am
>>> exposed to the panicked traffic lectures at my school,, it's time for a
>>> brief nap.
>>>
>>> And indeed, I have found the pinch collar works out for several reasons,
>>> one
>>> of which is to keep the busy-body segment of the public out of my hair.
>>> It
>>> takes very little action from a properly used pinch collar to get the dog
>>> back on focus.  Be warned though that if miss-used, the pinch collar can
>>> also cause serious pain and harm.  The dogs where I've used the pinch
>>> collar
>>> have no fear of it, but they do behave a little better when it's on and
>>> that
>>> carries over to the regular choker.
>>>
>>> Doug: why is my dog's neck so thin?
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Howard J. Levine" <WB2HWW at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 6:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>>
>>>
>>> : Right on I agree with you 100 percent, I live in New York can't stop,
>>> must
>>> : get out of street as fast as you can. You just do what works for you.
>>> :
>>> : -----Original Message-----
>>> : From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Raven
>>> Tolliver
>>> : Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 12:19 PM
>>> : To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> : Subject: Re: [nagdu] Changing the rules when you get home
>>> :
>>> : I changed a lot more than just the rules.
>>> : One of the first things I did was put the choke chain to rest, and
>>> switch
>>> to
>>> : a prong collar. I did not like the chain because frequently, it got
>>> caught
>>> : in my golden's fur, and it would turn around and slide down his neck. I
>>> : could never keep it in a proper position for a leash correction. I also
>>> did
>>> : not like the idea of briefly choking my dog for a leash correction. So
>>> for
>>>
>>> a
>>> : couple months, I used the prong collar, and it worked much better for
>>> me.
>>> : Then, I just switched to the martingale check collar, which is what I
>>> use
>>> : now.
>>> : I don't remember if my school said to heel the dog off of a bus or not.
>>> : Regardless, I work him off the bus. I gauge how much of a step down
>>> there
>>> is
>>> : by his behavior. If he steps right off after being cued to go forward,
>>> : there's obviously not much of a step. But if he stops in the doorway,
>>> and
>>> : does not obey the cue "forward," I know that there is a larger step
>>> down.
>>> : The school did say not to have the dog lay down on the bus. I don't
>>> think
>>> : this is practical, especially for longer bus rides. It doesn't come
>>> : naturally for my dog to just sit up while the bus is moving, so he just
>>> lays
>>> : down, and I slide him back under the seat. If someone comes on with a
>>> : wheelchair, stroller, or cart, I briefly grab up his front paws.
>>> : The school taught us to switch the dog over to the right side when
>>> working
>>> : through doors that opened out to the left. The only time I'll maneuver
>>> : through a doorway by doing a complete 360 is when I am carrying things
>>> in
>>> my
>>> : right hand.
>>> : I stopped treating so frequently concerning curbs and stairs. The
>>> school
>>> had
>>> : us treating at every curb, which is just ridiculous, especially the way
>>> they
>>> : had us stopping at the curb when we reached the other side of the
>>> street.
>>> : They trained the dog to stop with its front paws on the curb, but you
>>> and
>>> : the rest of your dog would still be hanging out in the road. I'm sorry,
>>> but
>>> : I did not like that at all.
>>> : Not all roads have bike lanes to just hang out in, and you only have
>>> about
>>> : 20-30 seconds to get your butts across the road and out of the road. So
>>>
>>> I
>>> : allowed my dog to continue over the curb, and just verbally praised him
>>> for
>>> : it. It's just not necessary to stop in the street after crossing the
>>> road.
>>> : At stairs, I allowed him to go up stairs without stopping at them.
>>> : Usually, he stops at stairs whether they are going up or down, but if
>>> he
>>> : does not stop, I don't rework it because I personally can feel through
>>> my
>>> : harness whether my dog is stepping up or down.
>>> : Too, when crossing streets, the school discouraged any kind of
>>> automatic
>>> : turning after crossing. If we needed to make a turn, we were instructed
>>>
>>> to
>>> : take two or three steps after the curb, cue "wait," then cue our dogs
>>> left
>>> : or right. Again, not practical, at least, not in my environment. On
>>> campus,
>>> : there isn't a lawn on the street side of the sidewalk, so turns after
>>> : crossing have to be immediate. I have to cue my dog "to the curb,
>>> right.
>>> To
>>> : the curb, right," or else, we will pass up the turn.
>>> : I also changed my dog's diet. He is now on a fish-based, grain, gluten,
>>> and
>>> : soy-free dog food. And I started feeding my dog fruit -- cantaloupe,
>>> : honey-do, and pear. He has never been interested in vegetables.
>>> : When I lived with my parents, I did not let him off leash until his
>>> : off-leash recall was reliable. And I did not force him to sleep on his
>>> bed
>>> : or in his crate. He was restricted to sleeping in my bedroom with me,
>>> but
>>> : the spot was up to him. He never got up on the bed, since he considered
>>> : jumping up on the furniture a sin. Here in my apartment, he sleeps
>>> wherever
>>> : - in the bathroom, living room, somewhere in the bedroom. The spot is
>>> up
>>> to
>>> : him and he moves around throughout the night.
>>> : He has never had an accident indoors. My puppy-raisers even said that
>>> he
>>> : never had an accident with them, even when he was sick. But sometimes,
>>> I
>>> : will take him out if I wake up around two or three in the morning
>>> though.
>>> : Oh, and lastly, I got him several squeaky toys. I don't know why
>>> schools
>>> say
>>> : not to get them. Maybe because dogs will try to chew the squeakers out
>>> and
>>> : eat them? My golden guy loves his squeaky toys, and I always monitor
>>> him
>>> if
>>> : he's playing independently with anything but a Nylobone.
>>> :
>>> :
>>> : --
>>> : Raven
>>> :
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>>
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>