[nagdu] self identification

Sun Nov 24 01:30:27 UTC 2013

Hi, Michael.

I've always had small dogs. My biggest was 21 inches tall, but I know of dogs who are much larger. My partner, for example, has a lab who measures 26 inches, and is quite long. Do you know if large dogs can fit under the seat in front? I can see smaller dogs doing it, but I'm not sure about larger dogs.

Shannon and the Acelet
On Nov 23, 2013, at 5:22 PM, "Michael Hingson" <Mike at michaelhingson.com> wrote:

> Mike,
> 
> Thanks for the email.  Good question.  What happens if you are caught in
> severe turbulents?  This year alone I know of three flights where passengers
> were injured due to turbulent conditions during the flights including
> take-offs and landings.  Since dogs do not wear seatbelts there is nothing
> to prevent a dog lying in a bulkhead row from bouncing about in severe
> turbulents.  The airlines are all about safety, so they say.  Well then
> let's talk safety for guide dogs.  There is nothing restraining a guide dog
> in a bulkhead row.  Also, the dog may often lye across more than one seat's
> legroom.
> 
> In a non-bulkhead seat the dog can be positioned under the seat in front
> with its head between its owner's feet.  In this position the dog is
> comfortable, and it is secure and restrained in case of emergencies.  By any
> standard the handler has much more control over the dog in a non-bulkhead
> seat.  Even if there is an emergency and the dog panics the handler has much
> more control when the dog is under a seat than can be attained when the dog
> is in a bulkhead seat and thus can help keep the dog calmer.
> 
> I hope this helps. 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> 
> Michael Hingson
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mike
> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 02:10 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
> 
> Hey Michael,
> 
> I'm curious as to why you say the bulkhead seats are not safe. I travel all
> the time and have been in just about every seat with my guy dog but I've
> never had any issues so I'm curious about what you're basing this off of.
> 
> Thanks and have a good day.
> 
> Mike Malarsie
> www.malarsie.com
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2013, at 3:25 PM, "Michael Hingson" <Mike at michaelhingson.com>
> wrote:
>> 
>> Fear not.  They will hear about this. 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
>> Stanley
>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 12:22 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
>> 
>> And I'd hope, Michael, that if you don't file a complaint under the 
>> ACAA against US Air for what they stated to you about their policy, 
>> which is illegal under said ACAA, then they'll just keep doing it, 
>> whether you self identify at the ticket ordering stage or at the airport.
>> 
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael 
>> Hingson
>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 2:27 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] self identification
>> 
>> Genine,
>> 
>> While I understand your reasoning for self identification, the fact is 
>> that the airlines make up the rules as they go, and they are good at 
>> intimidating people who may not be strong enough to resist their 
>> extreme lack of sensitivity, knowledge of the law, and common sense.  
>> For these reasons I usually do not identify in advance.  Here is a case in
> point.
>> 
>> Last Saturday I made a reservation on US Air.  (I usually use American 
>> as I am executive Platinum on AA and can get most places with them.)  
>> However, because AA didn't fly where I needed to go I chose to fly US 
>> Air as it was the best choice for my needs for a particular flight.  
>> Given the experience Al Rizzi had and because I wanted to get the full 
>> experience of how US Air would treat me I decided to try an experiment 
>> and identify that I was traveling with a guide dog.  Usually I do not 
>> so identify as I can simply request in advance the seat I want and get 
>> it.  (I refuse to fly in the bulkhead as it is unsafe and so that is not
> an issue.).
>> 
>> Anyway, immediately upon identifying the existence of my guide dog I 
>> was told that US Air's policy was that I would be required to sit in 
>> the bulkhead row.  I simply flat out said "no" and that I would be 
>> sitting elsewhere.
>> 
>> After being put on hold for five minutes the agent came back to inform 
>> me that she, with her supervisor's permission, put me in a 
>> non-bulkhead seat, but that I might be changed back to the bulkhead at 
>> the airport.  The agent switched my seat even though she had said that 
>> US Air's policy was that I had to sit in the bulkhead row?  Really?  So
> much for a "policy".
>> 
>> I have no specific knowledge of the US Air policy, but I will learn it.
>> However, it doesn't matter.  The ACAA does not require me to sit in 
>> the bulkhead nor even by a window.  Many blind passengers do not have 
>> my level of experience and may not fight as hard.
>> 
>> I realize that at the airport people may also have the same fight to
> fight.
>> Even so, the fight is less likely if the airline has less time to make 
>> up rules or become entrenched in a position.  If you think it is bad 
>> for blind people with guide dogs I submit that people in wheelchairs 
>> often have even more difficult times.  I have seen this happen with my 
>> wife, Karen, almost every time we fly.
>> 
>> Finally, self identification should not be necessary as we should not 
>> have to be singled out as a class.  If you really can make a case for 
>> needing to identify yourself and your guide in advance to get a 
>> specific seat, and if that works for you, then so be it.  If, for 
>> example, you feel that you need the bulkhead then I can understand 
>> advance notice being given to the airlines as that will be the only 
>> way you get that seat.  I would say again, however, that bulkhead 
>> seats are arguably unsafe for guide dogs.  As a result, Since most 
>> guide dogs will fit under non-bulkhead seats advanced self 
>> identification is unnecessary and can only lead to more fights and
> difficulties just as with taxis.
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> 
>> Michael Hingson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jenine 
>> Stanley
>> Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 07:46 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: [nagdu] self identification
>> 
>> Marion,
>> 
>> I agree with you in most cases. Self identification just is not 
>> necessary as someone working with any type of assistance dog.
>> 
>> Air travel though is a bit different in a couple ways. I do self 
>> identify there because:
>> 
>> 1. It's a very restricted environment. It's not like another plane 
>> will just pull up to take you where you want to go.
>> 2. I want to pre-board for very specific reasons, to get the seat I 
>> want, which I'm pretty proactive about, and to get all dog-related 
>> issues settled ASAP so I can plug in and tune out. :) 3. But most 
>> importantly, under the Air Carrier Access Act, if I want a specific 
>> seat or type of seat as an accommodation for dog, I have to self 
>> identify, at least 48 hours before the flight.
>> 
>> So there ya go. 
>> 
>> Do I do this with taxi cabs, restaurants, stores, etc.? Absolutely not. 
>> 
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>> http://www.twitter.com/jeninems
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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