[nagdu] Identifying dogs reaching a common ground

Darla Rogers djrogers0628 at gmail.com
Thu Sep 5 21:39:03 UTC 2013

And, who should do this certifying?  I couldn't be less in favor of
something; sounds very Draconian to me and will not weed out people who
train their little "fru-fru's," or not as "service" animals.
	We have to police ourselves, and, for the most part, it works, and
the reasons for that have been well-documented by others, so I won't repeat
what they have already said so well.
	I have enough to keep track of without having to show my dog's ID
which is in my purse but may not be if I dash out with just my keys for a
short walk and decide to stop for a soft drink or something.
	If you think things are bad now, you'd then have people questioning
every ID because it has also been well-documented how easy it is to make or
otherwise obtain a fake ID.
Darla & hardworking Huck who says he knows who he is

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle A.
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 1:04 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Identifying dogs reaching a common ground

I too prefer to work with dogs trained in programs but I also have great
admiration for those who train their own dogs. That being said, I wouldn't
mind being "carded" in order to show that my dog is a legit service animal.
It's like the extra precautions at airports, yes, they are a hastle but they
ensure everyone's safety which to me is worth it.

On 9/5/13, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Bridget,
> There are a number of people, as you know, who train or have trained 
> their own dogs on this list. I used to feel as you do about it, but 
> I've seen some dogs who appeared to be well trained come out of the 
> programs; I've seem some who did not. I've seen some who appeared to 
> be well trained by trainers; I have seen a few who are not.
> The people on this list don't take a random dog and train that dog. 
> They carefully select a dog, or the parent of one at a breeder's. 
> Probably the pups were mostly already born. Maybe some take older, but 
> as I see it, the most take pups. Then they socialize them much as the 
> puppy raisers do from the programs, and begin training them. If the 
> dog's temperament appears to not be what they are looking for, they 
> start over. I think some of these people train their dogs for a couple 
> of years. I, like you, would not do this even though the thought intrigues
> I think the furror over dogs is related more to the fact there are so 
> many services now covered. At one time only guides were covered. I 
> believe there were problems then; I also believe they have escalated. 
> The problems have escalated, in my opinion, because so many services 
> claim to be covered. Some of them, upon further exploration, seem to 
> be warranted. Others may not, and especially the so-called emotional 
> support thing. Just about anyone could pick up a chihuahua and take it 
> with them, claiming that they de-stress by petting the dog; therefore, 
> the dog is providing a service. They aren't to do it now, but then there
gets to be confusion about that and the PTSD Dogs.
> Those provide a service though because they help a person having an 
> episode to ground again and sometimes to get out of the place causing 
> stress. But a lot of the problem is there are so many service covered 
> now that people slip under the wire, so to speak. I do believe, like 
> you, that the time will come when we will all have to show 
> documentation because of the continuing abuse, unless most of it is
imagined rather than real.
> Some of what I said my not be completely accurate, so if it is not, I 
> apologize in advance to those who no more about training than do I.
> CL
> On Sep 4, 2013, at 11:17 PM, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> I have some thoughts after following the threads. in my opinion A 
>> service dog should be trained by an actual program. Yes that's right I
said it.
>> It's not the harness or the vest that makes the dog it is the 
>> training. I do not know how anyone can pick a random dog, train it on 
>> their own without being a trainer and call it a service animal. Until 
>> someone informs me of how a dog that is not trained by an actual 
>> trainer gets identified as a service dog I'm sorry I personally can 
>> find a reason why there can be conflicts.
>> I fully believe the dogs the guide dog schools breed and train  are 
>> what make the dog. The early socialization and introductions the 
>> puppies get is crucial and it should all be done a specific way. With 
>> that I think this war over fake verses  legit service dogs is beating 
>> a dead horse.  I think there most definitely needs to be some kind of 
>> certification process for the dogs that are not trained from an 
>> actual program. If I could just train my pet as a guide dog is that 
>> really ok? I asked a while back who evaluates these dogs and I never 
>> got an answer. I don't think it can be just anyone who should make 
>> the call over what makes a good service dog that is what  a trainer.
Training school is for.
>> Ok a bit off topic there but really I think there is a reason we have 
>> training programs and ID cards. Do we need them by law? No, but maybe 
>> we just might at the rate everything is going.
>> There are people that take for granted a lot of opportunities including
>> this. I would still like to maintain the ability to travel   with a
>> service dog as a right not a privilege.
>> This is not designed. to say this goes to the fault of anyone 
>> specific because if we knew why there was such a conflict I am sure 
>> we would be acting on it.
>> I leave it at that.
>> Bridget
>> Sent from my iPad
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