[nagdu] Identifying dogs reaching a common ground

Fri Sep 6 00:01:37 UTC 2013

Hi Bridget and all,

I have to agree with Julie here.  You are right that the training
makes the dog.  Not truer words could be said.  I think that if the
dog is trained to perform a service for the handeler, and that service
can be made clear(by demonstration or some other means), then that dog
can show its legitimacy as a service animal.  I fully support those
who train their own dogs and might do it if I had the time and energy.
 There should never be a law that makes things more difficult for you
owner trainers.  Your dogs are just as legitimate(and in some cases
more so) than those of us who received our dogs from schools.

On 9/5/13, Darla Rogers <djrogers0628 at gmail.com> wrote:
> And, who should do this certifying?  I couldn't be less in favor of
> something; sounds very Draconian to me and will not weed out people who
> train their little "fru-fru's," or not as "service" animals.
> 	We have to police ourselves, and, for the most part, it works, and
> the reasons for that have been well-documented by others, so I won't repeat
> what they have already said so well.
> 	I have enough to keep track of without having to show my dog's ID
> which is in my purse but may not be if I dash out with just my keys for a
> short walk and decide to stop for a soft drink or something.
> 	If you think things are bad now, you'd then have people questioning
> every ID because it has also been well-documented how easy it is to make or
> otherwise obtain a fake ID.
> Darla & hardworking Huck who says he knows who he is
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle A.
> Creapeau
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 1:04 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Identifying dogs reaching a common ground
>
> I too prefer to work with dogs trained in programs but I also have great
> admiration for those who train their own dogs. That being said, I wouldn't
> mind being "carded" in order to show that my dog is a legit service animal.
> It's like the extra precautions at airports, yes, they are a hastle but
> they
> ensure everyone's safety which to me is worth it.
>
> On 9/5/13, Cindy Ray <cindyray at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Bridget,
>>
>> There are a number of people, as you know, who train or have trained
>> their own dogs on this list. I used to feel as you do about it, but
>> I've seen some dogs who appeared to be well trained come out of the
>> programs; I've seem some who did not. I've seen some who appeared to
>> be well trained by trainers; I have seen a few who are not.
>>
>> The people on this list don't take a random dog and train that dog.
>> They carefully select a dog, or the parent of one at a breeder's.
>> Probably the pups were mostly already born. Maybe some take older, but
>> as I see it, the most take pups. Then they socialize them much as the
>> puppy raisers do from the programs, and begin training them. If the
>> dog's temperament appears to not be what they are looking for, they
>> start over. I think some of these people train their dogs for a couple
>> of years. I, like you, would not do this even though the thought
>> intrigues
> me.
>>
>> I think the furror over dogs is related more to the fact there are so
>> many services now covered. At one time only guides were covered. I
>> believe there were problems then; I also believe they have escalated.
>> The problems have escalated, in my opinion, because so many services
>> claim to be covered. Some of them, upon further exploration, seem to
>> be warranted. Others may not, and especially the so-called emotional
>> support thing. Just about anyone could pick up a chihuahua and take it
>> with them, claiming that they de-stress by petting the dog; therefore,
>> the dog is providing a service. They aren't to do it now, but then there
> gets to be confusion about that and the PTSD Dogs.
>> Those provide a service though because they help a person having an
>> episode to ground again and sometimes to get out of the place causing
>> stress. But a lot of the problem is there are so many service covered
>> now that people slip under the wire, so to speak. I do believe, like
>> you, that the time will come when we will all have to show
>> documentation because of the continuing abuse, unless most of it is
> imagined rather than real.
>>
>> Some of what I said my not be completely accurate, so if it is not, I
>> apologize in advance to those who no more about training than do I.
>>
>> CL
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2013, at 11:17 PM, Bridget Walker <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I have some thoughts after following the threads. in my opinion A
>>> service dog should be trained by an actual program. Yes that's right I
> said it.
>>> It's not the harness or the vest that makes the dog it is the
>>> training. I do not know how anyone can pick a random dog, train it on
>>> their own without being a trainer and call it a service animal. Until
>>> someone informs me of how a dog that is not trained by an actual
>>> trainer gets identified as a service dog I'm sorry I personally can
>>> find a reason why there can be conflicts.
>>> I fully believe the dogs the guide dog schools breed and train  are
>>> what make the dog. The early socialization and introductions the
>>> puppies get is crucial and it should all be done a specific way. With
>>> that I think this war over fake verses  legit service dogs is beating
>>> a dead horse.  I think there most definitely needs to be some kind of
>>> certification process for the dogs that are not trained from an
>>> actual program. If I could just train my pet as a guide dog is that
>>> really ok? I asked a while back who evaluates these dogs and I never
>>> got an answer. I don't think it can be just anyone who should make
>>> the call over what makes a good service dog that is what  a trainer.
> Training school is for.
>>> Ok a bit off topic there but really I think there is a reason we have
>>> training programs and ID cards. Do we need them by law? No, but maybe
>>> we just might at the rate everything is going.
>>> There are people that take for granted a lot of opportunities including
>>> this. I would still like to maintain the ability to travel   with a
>>> service dog as a right not a privilege.
>>> This is not designed. to say this goes to the fault of anyone
>>> specific because if we knew why there was such a conflict I am sure
>>> we would be acting on it.
>>> I leave it at that.
>>>
>>> Bridget
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
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>>
>>
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-- 
Julie McG
National Association of Guide dog Users board member,  National
Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President,
and Guiding Eyes for the Blind graduate 2008
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16