[nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world

Thu Aug 6 20:51:48 UTC 2015

I wonder how many instructors truly believe that retaining ownership
is the answer to all the problems. I find it a little disconcerting
that an instructor would complain about students being incompetent and
not feeling gratitude. I wonder if there is a correlation between low
expectations of the instructor and poor handling practices by the
student(s) he/she taught. After all, if you don't truly believe
someone is competent and self-reliant, you would most likely
concentrate more on their faults as something that should be expected,
rather than feeling a responsibility to assist this person in
improving their weaknesses. I'm not sure this makes any sense, but it
was something that came to mind while reading this thread. I attended
GDF, which does in fact provide unconditional ownership, so I can't
truly speak to the attitudes of instructors from programs without this
policy.

Danielle, Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)

On 8/6/15, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Tracy,
> I also had this same experience at GDB when I was there last, which
> admittedly was also many moons ago.  My field rep who did my follow up would
> frequently rant about how she was always having to fix problems the
> graduates had because of careless or irresponsible handling, and our lack of
> grattitude and how the instructors needf to have a way to remove a dog if
> necessary.
> I think this scarred me for life. lol. Which is why I really hope, by the
> time I'm too old to train my own, there will be a choice of programs out
> there that will accept a Deafblind person communicating in ASL, which will
> give ownership.
> Because right now my choice is leader, GEB both of whom have a waiting
> period which is not an option. And maybe GDF, which I think gives ownership.
>
>
>
>  Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 8:17 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> When I was at GDB, many moons ago, I felt the instructors were against
>> ownership because they'd bought into the idea that the school keeping
>> ownership was the only way to protect the dogs from being abused. Huh.
>> Tracy and poor abused Krokus, lying on his cushion with his toy
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 5:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Star Gazer
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>>                Very interesting.
>> Why were the instructors against ownership? My thinking is that the
>> process
>> currently in place provides them with great job security.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie Mosen
>> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 9:10 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Bonnie Mosen <bonnie at mosen.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Hi Tina and all. Trying to remember how it all worked. Smile As New
>> Zealand
>> is a rabies free country with an agricultural based economy--we have more
>> sheep than people, they are understandably extremely strict about animals
>> coming into the country.
>>
>> It was a six month process with tons of paperwork and tests to get Lizzie
>> in. The only concessions they make for assistance animals is the home
>> quarantine, rather than a facility and travel in the cabin of the
>> airliner.
>> As Seeing Eye obviously can't do any sort of follow up or orientation
>> support here, they advised me to contact the school to orient us to the
>> new
>> area. Also for Lizzie to be protected by the NZ access laws, she would
>> need
>> a tag, which she wears on her collar saying she is a guide dog certified
>> to
>> work in NZ.
>> I had a local instructor come out and give us some orientation. She also
>> observed how Lizzie worked--basically just following us on simple routes
>> and
>> had the tag sent to us. Each year, Lizzie gets a new tag, and the
>> instructor
>> comes out and follows us on a route of our choosing. She is here if I run
>> into any sort of difficulty with travel, orientation, or dog behavior
>> issues. Luckily, I haven't had any and would probably still work them out
>> myself or  with TSE if possible.
>> The general public doesn't even realize Lizzie isn't from the New Zealand
>> school. Several months ago, I had a gentleman stop me on the street in
>> Wellington. He said he never gives to charity, but he has seen me and Liz
>> several times and she is such a great dog he gave a donation to the guide
>> dog school. I didn't have the heart to tell him she wasn't a home bred
>> kiwi
>> guide. Smile But that's what it's about whatever school your dog comes
>> from.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Bonnie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tina Thomas
>> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 11:25 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Hello Bonnie- Could you tell us more about how the certification and
>> recertification process works in NZ.
>> Thank you.
>> Tina and the pointy ear princesses
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie Mosen
>> via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 4:21 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Bonnie Mosen
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Hi Jimmy and others. This is a very interesting topic. I am an American
>> living in New Zealand and brought my dog from The Seeing Eye over with me
>> when I moved here in 2013. We have one school here in New
>> Zealand--operated
>> as part of the Blind Foundation. My understanding  is they do not offer
>> ownership: however, at one time, they did, but the guide dog instructors
>> lobbied against it. As part of working a dog in NZ, I had to get Lizzie
>> certified by the NZ school and have to have an instructor recertify her
>> each
>> year. As someone, who has always had ownership of her dog, this was a
>> tough
>> thing to get my head around.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Bonnie Mosen  -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jimmy via
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 2:07 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Jimmy <jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Good evening friends!
>> I was curious if anyone has done research on how guide dog schools in
>> other
>> parts of the world Address and view guide  dog ownership? I ask as I
>> wonder
>> if this is   In  just in our country or in other areas as well
>>
>> James Alan Boehm
>> Phone: 901-483-1515
>> Personal Email: jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com Refer NFB correspondences to:
>> secretary at nfb-tn.org
>>
>> "Blindness never limits- Low expectations do! Live the life you want!"
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