[nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world

Fri Aug 7 13:21:11 UTC 2015

Danielle, that makes sense to me.  I've also noticed that some instructors
seem to assume a retrain can't change old habbits, so don't bother pointing
out bad ones.  Which is why I try to remember to say that I want to be told
about my bad habbits, so hopefully I can fix them.
Tracy

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Danielle Sykora
via nagdu
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2015 4:52 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Danielle Sykora
Subject: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world

I wonder how many instructors truly believe that retaining ownership is the
answer to all the problems. I find it a little disconcerting that an
instructor would complain about students being incompetent and not feeling
gratitude. I wonder if there is a correlation between low expectations of
the instructor and poor handling practices by the
student(s) he/she taught. After all, if you don't truly believe someone is
competent and self-reliant, you would most likely concentrate more on their
faults as something that should be expected, rather than feeling a
responsibility to assist this person in improving their weaknesses. I'm not
sure this makes any sense, but it was something that came to mind while
reading this thread. I attended GDF, which does in fact provide
unconditional ownership, so I can't truly speak to the attitudes of
instructors from programs without this policy.

Danielle, Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)

On 8/6/15, The Pawpower Pack via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Tracy,
> I also had this same experience at GDB when I was there last, which 
> admittedly was also many moons ago.  My field rep who did my follow up 
> would frequently rant about how she was always having to fix problems 
> the graduates had because of careless or irresponsible handling, and 
> our lack of grattitude and how the instructors needf to have a way to 
> remove a dog if necessary.
> I think this scarred me for life. lol. Which is why I really hope, by 
> the time I'm too old to train my own, there will be a choice of 
> programs out there that will accept a Deafblind person communicating 
> in ASL, which will give ownership.
> Because right now my choice is leader, GEB both of whom have a waiting 
> period which is not an option. And maybe GDF, which I think gives
ownership.
>
>
>
>  Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 6, 2015, at 8:17 AM, Tracy Carcione via nagdu 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> When I was at GDB, many moons ago, I felt the instructors were 
>> against ownership because they'd bought into the idea that the school 
>> keeping ownership was the only way to protect the dogs from being abused.
Huh.
>> Tracy and poor abused Krokus, lying on his cushion with his toy
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Star Gazer 
>> via nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 5:11 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Star Gazer
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>>                Very interesting.
>> Why were the instructors against ownership? My thinking is that the 
>> process currently in place provides them with great job security.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie 
>> Mosen via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2015 9:10 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Bonnie Mosen <bonnie at mosen.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Hi Tina and all. Trying to remember how it all worked. Smile As New 
>> Zealand is a rabies free country with an agricultural based 
>> economy--we have more sheep than people, they are understandably 
>> extremely strict about animals coming into the country.
>>
>> It was a six month process with tons of paperwork and tests to get 
>> Lizzie in. The only concessions they make for assistance animals is 
>> the home quarantine, rather than a facility and travel in the cabin 
>> of the airliner.
>> As Seeing Eye obviously can't do any sort of follow up or orientation 
>> support here, they advised me to contact the school to orient us to 
>> the new area. Also for Lizzie to be protected by the NZ access laws, 
>> she would need a tag, which she wears on her collar saying she is a 
>> guide dog certified to work in NZ.
>> I had a local instructor come out and give us some orientation. She 
>> also observed how Lizzie worked--basically just following us on 
>> simple routes and had the tag sent to us. Each year, Lizzie gets a 
>> new tag, and the instructor comes out and follows us on a route of 
>> our choosing. She is here if I run into any sort of difficulty with 
>> travel, orientation, or dog behavior issues. Luckily, I haven't had 
>> any and would probably still work them out myself or  with TSE if 
>> possible.
>> The general public doesn't even realize Lizzie isn't from the New 
>> Zealand school. Several months ago, I had a gentleman stop me on the 
>> street in Wellington. He said he never gives to charity, but he has 
>> seen me and Liz several times and she is such a great dog he gave a 
>> donation to the guide dog school. I didn't have the heart to tell him 
>> she wasn't a home bred kiwi guide. Smile But that's what it's about 
>> whatever school your dog comes from.
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>> Bonnie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Tina 
>> Thomas via nagdu
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2015 11:25 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Tina Thomas <judotina48kg at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Hello Bonnie- Could you tell us more about how the certification and 
>> recertification process works in NZ.
>> Thank you.
>> Tina and the pointy ear princesses
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bonnie 
>> Mosen via nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 4:21 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Cc: Bonnie Mosen
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Hi Jimmy and others. This is a very interesting topic. I am an 
>> American living in New Zealand and brought my dog from The Seeing Eye 
>> over with me when I moved here in 2013. We have one school here in 
>> New Zealand--operated as part of the Blind Foundation. My 
>> understanding  is they do not offer
>> ownership: however, at one time, they did, but the guide dog 
>> instructors lobbied against it. As part of working a dog in NZ, I had 
>> to get Lizzie certified by the NZ school and have to have an 
>> instructor recertify her each year. As someone, who has always had 
>> ownership of her dog, this was a tough thing to get my head around.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Bonnie Mosen  -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jimmy via 
>> nagdu
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2015 2:07 PM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Jimmy <jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [nagdu] Dog ownership in other areas of the world
>>
>> Good evening friends!
>> I was curious if anyone has done research on how guide dog schools in 
>> other parts of the world Address and view guide  dog ownership? I ask 
>> as I wonder
>> if this is   In  just in our country or in other areas as well
>>
>> James Alan Boehm
>> Phone: 901-483-1515
>> Personal Email: jimmydagerman80 at gmail.com Refer NFB correspondences to:
>> secretary at nfb-tn.org
>>
>> "Blindness never limits- Low expectations do! Live the life you want!"
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