[nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

Sun Aug 30 17:16:17 UTC 2015

I'm in Nebraska.  I used to work at our training center in Lincoln. 
Currently I am a Commissioner for our agency.

If a student has a guide when they enter center training, the guide comes 
with them to the center daily, or at least is invited to do so.   I suppose 
they could make other arrangements if they wanted to, but I've never heard 
of anyone wanting to do that.  During classes the dog stays in a staff 
members office or in an unused room, depending on the desires of the 
student.  The dog can be on tie down, in a crate or on a down stay if they 
will not get up and require an intervention.   From day 1, the student can 
work the dog before classes begin in the morning, at lunch and after classes 
conclude at the end of the day.     For the first few months of center 
training, the student is required to use the cane for all classes, including 
cane travel.  As center training progresses the student and travel 
instructor will work together on integrating the dog into the daily schedule 
and travel lessons.  It is dependent on the student's progression and there 
is no hard and fast time line.   By the end of center training, which is 
typically 6-9 months, the student will typically be using the dog full time.

The training center here uses structure discovery methods and sleepshades. 
We do accept students from other states.  I don't know the details of that, 
but funding would be a consideration.  Also Nebraska residents have 
priority.

I am good friends with the travel instructor at the center.  If he has 
questions about guide dogs, he calls me.  He's very knowledgeable about 
guides though.

Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now 
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
-----Original Message----- 
From: Marianne Denning via nagdu
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 11:43 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Marianne Denning
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

Julie, wwhere do you work?  Is the decision to let the person work
with their dog based on each individual's progress through the
program?

On 8/30/15, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Raven,
>
> A few thoughts...
>
> First I do not believe that guide dogs and canes are diametrically 
> opposed,
>
> as you previously asserted I said.  I believe they are different, but that
> many of the skills are similar or overlapping.  I believe that orientation
> skills are the much, much larger part of orientation and mobility 
> training.
>
> Folks learn to use a guide dog for mobility in less than a month.  I also
> believe that you can learn to use a cane strictly for mobility in that 
> time.
>
> However the larger orientation skills take months and months to learn and
> master.
>
> I've said before that it is preferable to learn orientation skills while
> using a cane.  This is because it causes you to learn without confusing a
> dog or inadvertently relying on input from the dog.  Here's an
> example...early in O&M training here at our center, people learn the skill
> of identifying where the door out of a room is, even if they are the only
> person in the room.   This skill is the predecessor to more advanced 
> skills
>
> like mall travel where you need to be able to recognize when you pass a
> certain store or leave one area of the mall for another and the like when
> there is no distinct doorway.  Here's the thing though, if you are a dog
> user, even if you do not cue the dog to find the door, it is going to be 
> the
>
> obvious thing and they are going to suggest it.  The person may never pick
> up on the subtle indications of where that door is.  They don't learn that
> base skill to be able to build on it later and perhaps later the dog 
> doesn't
>
> know which way to go in the mall because there is no obvious choice. 
> Because
>
> the person hasn't learned to recognize other clues in the environment, 
> they
>
> don't know how to direct the dog.
>
> Raven, you seem to have very good O&M skills.  For you it may make little
> difference if you went through center training with a cane or dog, but
> having worked at a center, I can absolutely tell you that the huge 
> majority
>
> of people are not like you.  They are attending the center training 
> because
>
> they need to better their skills, all of their skills.    We do have 
> people
>
> attend our center with their guide dog.  Here they work their dog in their
> free time, before and after classes and at the lunch break.  As the 
> training
>
> progresses, the dog is incorporated into travel class and other times.  By
> the very end of training, the person will be back to working the dog the
> majority of the time.
>
> We all know that dogs get sick,  tragic things happen and eventually the 
> dog
>
> will need to retire.  For about 99.9% of us this means using a cane when 
> the
>
> dog is unavailable.   It's unrealistic to think that someone will be able 
> to
>
> work their dog 100% of the time for the person's entire lifetime.   So if
> you don't have decent cane skills this means you are going to need a human
> guide, put your life on hold or have two dogs at all times. Seems to me
> having learned to use a cane would be a good base skill to have.
>
> I know that all of the programs have requirements about being able to use 
> a
>
> cane or show that you have good O&M skills.  But let's be brutally honest
> with ourselves for a minute,  we all know that what passes for good O&M
> skills varies widely from program to program.  I also cannot begin to 
> count
>
> the number of stories I have heard from people who attended a program and
> had classmates who couldn't find their way around without significant 
> help.
>
> To me it's pretty clear that folks with guide dogs do not all have good
> orientation skills.  Perhaps we could work with the guide dog programs to
> help them better understand the importance of acquiring good orientation
> training before getting a dog.
>
> You made the argument that a dog is your preferred mobility tool and the
> center programs should support that decision.  I think they do, but that
> they also recognize that a dog is a mobility tool and that there is more 
> to
>
> independent travel than mobility.    What if a person went to a center and
> said they use GPS, so they don't need to learn orientation skills?  that
> would be silly and no one would think that a good idea.  GPS only goes so
> far in getting you where you want to go.  It doesn't tell you when it's 
> safe
>
> to cross the street, when there are stairs, when there's road construction
> or when a kid has parked his bike across the sidewalk.  If someone went to 
> a
>
> center and said they didn't need to learn to use the stovetop because they
> were going to eat microwave dinners for the rest of their life, no one 
> would
>
> think that a good idea either.   The centers recognize that personal
> independence through skill training includes a wide variety of skills.  It
> means moving out of your comfort zone and learning new things.  Perhaps
> there are people who only use the microwave to cook, but the point is that
> after center training that's a choice, not a necessity.  To me that's what
> it's really about, having the choice to pick from a wide variety of skills
> to find the one that best fits the particular situation I find myself in.
>
> Julie
>
>
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053

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