[nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

Sun Aug 30 17:41:21 UTC 2015

Thanks Julie.  I haven't heard that the 3 NFB centers provide the same
training.  I like that idea though.  I think the discovery method is
great but think it can be incorporated into working with a dog.

On 8/30/15, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I'm in Nebraska.  I used to work at our training center in Lincoln.
> Currently I am a Commissioner for our agency.
>
> If a student has a guide when they enter center training, the guide comes
> with them to the center daily, or at least is invited to do so.   I suppose
>
> they could make other arrangements if they wanted to, but I've never heard
> of anyone wanting to do that.  During classes the dog stays in a staff
> members office or in an unused room, depending on the desires of the
> student.  The dog can be on tie down, in a crate or on a down stay if they
> will not get up and require an intervention.   From day 1, the student can
> work the dog before classes begin in the morning, at lunch and after classes
>
> conclude at the end of the day.     For the first few months of center
> training, the student is required to use the cane for all classes, including
>
> cane travel.  As center training progresses the student and travel
> instructor will work together on integrating the dog into the daily schedule
>
> and travel lessons.  It is dependent on the student's progression and there
>
> is no hard and fast time line.   By the end of center training, which is
> typically 6-9 months, the student will typically be using the dog full
> time.
>
> The training center here uses structure discovery methods and sleepshades.
> We do accept students from other states.  I don't know the details of that,
>
> but funding would be a consideration.  Also Nebraska residents have
> priority.
>
> I am good friends with the travel instructor at the center.  If he has
> questions about guide dogs, he calls me.  He's very knowledgeable about
> guides though.
>
> Julie
> Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now
> available! Get the book here:
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marianne Denning via nagdu
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2015 11:43 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Cc: Marianne Denning
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers
>
> Julie, wwhere do you work?  Is the decision to let the person work
> with their dog based on each individual's progress through the
> program?
>
> On 8/30/15, Julie J. via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Raven,
>>
>> A few thoughts...
>>
>> First I do not believe that guide dogs and canes are diametrically
>> opposed,
>>
>> as you previously asserted I said.  I believe they are different, but
>> that
>> many of the skills are similar or overlapping.  I believe that
>> orientation
>> skills are the much, much larger part of orientation and mobility
>> training.
>>
>> Folks learn to use a guide dog for mobility in less than a month.  I also
>> believe that you can learn to use a cane strictly for mobility in that
>> time.
>>
>> However the larger orientation skills take months and months to learn and
>> master.
>>
>> I've said before that it is preferable to learn orientation skills while
>> using a cane.  This is because it causes you to learn without confusing a
>> dog or inadvertently relying on input from the dog.  Here's an
>> example...early in O&M training here at our center, people learn the
>> skill
>> of identifying where the door out of a room is, even if they are the only
>> person in the room.   This skill is the predecessor to more advanced
>> skills
>>
>> like mall travel where you need to be able to recognize when you pass a
>> certain store or leave one area of the mall for another and the like when
>> there is no distinct doorway.  Here's the thing though, if you are a dog
>> user, even if you do not cue the dog to find the door, it is going to be
>> the
>>
>> obvious thing and they are going to suggest it.  The person may never
>> pick
>> up on the subtle indications of where that door is.  They don't learn
>> that
>> base skill to be able to build on it later and perhaps later the dog
>> doesn't
>>
>> know which way to go in the mall because there is no obvious choice.
>> Because
>>
>> the person hasn't learned to recognize other clues in the environment,
>> they
>>
>> don't know how to direct the dog.
>>
>> Raven, you seem to have very good O&M skills.  For you it may make little
>> difference if you went through center training with a cane or dog, but
>> having worked at a center, I can absolutely tell you that the huge
>> majority
>>
>> of people are not like you.  They are attending the center training
>> because
>>
>> they need to better their skills, all of their skills.    We do have
>> people
>>
>> attend our center with their guide dog.  Here they work their dog in
>> their
>> free time, before and after classes and at the lunch break.  As the
>> training
>>
>> progresses, the dog is incorporated into travel class and other times.
>> By
>> the very end of training, the person will be back to working the dog the
>> majority of the time.
>>
>> We all know that dogs get sick,  tragic things happen and eventually the
>> dog
>>
>> will need to retire.  For about 99.9% of us this means using a cane when
>> the
>>
>> dog is unavailable.   It's unrealistic to think that someone will be able
>>
>> to
>>
>> work their dog 100% of the time for the person's entire lifetime.   So if
>> you don't have decent cane skills this means you are going to need a
>> human
>> guide, put your life on hold or have two dogs at all times. Seems to me
>> having learned to use a cane would be a good base skill to have.
>>
>> I know that all of the programs have requirements about being able to use
>>
>> a
>>
>> cane or show that you have good O&M skills.  But let's be brutally honest
>> with ourselves for a minute,  we all know that what passes for good O&M
>> skills varies widely from program to program.  I also cannot begin to
>> count
>>
>> the number of stories I have heard from people who attended a program and
>> had classmates who couldn't find their way around without significant
>> help.
>>
>> To me it's pretty clear that folks with guide dogs do not all have good
>> orientation skills.  Perhaps we could work with the guide dog programs to
>> help them better understand the importance of acquiring good orientation
>> training before getting a dog.
>>
>> You made the argument that a dog is your preferred mobility tool and the
>> center programs should support that decision.  I think they do, but that
>> they also recognize that a dog is a mobility tool and that there is more
>> to
>>
>> independent travel than mobility.    What if a person went to a center
>> and
>> said they use GPS, so they don't need to learn orientation skills?  that
>> would be silly and no one would think that a good idea.  GPS only goes so
>> far in getting you where you want to go.  It doesn't tell you when it's
>> safe
>>
>> to cross the street, when there are stairs, when there's road
>> construction
>> or when a kid has parked his bike across the sidewalk.  If someone went to
>>
>> a
>>
>> center and said they didn't need to learn to use the stovetop because
>> they
>> were going to eat microwave dinners for the rest of their life, no one
>> would
>>
>> think that a good idea either.   The centers recognize that personal
>> independence through skill training includes a wide variety of skills.
>> It
>> means moving out of your comfort zone and learning new things.  Perhaps
>> there are people who only use the microwave to cook, but the point is
>> that
>> after center training that's a choice, not a necessity.  To me that's
>> what
>> it's really about, having the choice to pick from a wide variety of
>> skills
>> to find the one that best fits the particular situation I find myself in.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> (513) 607-6053
>
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053