[nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

[David Andrews]

Julie:

Thank you.  As always what you say makes sense.

While many people won't agree with me, probably, I think that some 
dog users got their dogs because they had not had good cane training, 
and don't know what else to do.


Dave


At 06:55 AM 8/30/2015, you wrote:
>Raven,
>
>A few thoughts...
>
>First I do not believe that guide dogs and canes are diametrically 
>opposed, as you previously asserted I said.  I believe they are 
>different, but that many of the skills are similar or 
>overlapping.  I believe that orientation skills are the much, much 
>larger part of orientation and mobility training. Folks learn to use 
>a guide dog for mobility in less than a month.  I also believe that 
>you can learn to use a cane strictly for mobility in that time. 
>However the larger orientation skills take months and months to 
>learn and master.
>
>I've said before that it is preferable to learn orientation skills 
>while using a cane.  This is because it causes you to learn without 
>confusing a dog or inadvertently relying on input from the 
>dog.  Here's an example...early in O&M training here at our center, 
>people learn the skill of identifying where the door out of a room 
>is, even if they are the only person in the room.   This skill is 
>the predecessor to more advanced skills like mall travel where you 
>need to be able to recognize when you pass a certain store or leave 
>one area of the mall for another and the like when there is no 
>distinct doorway.  Here's the thing though, if you are a dog user, 
>even if you do not cue the dog to find the door, it is going to be 
>the obvious thing and they are going to suggest it.  The person may 
>never pick up on the subtle indications of where that door is.  They 
>don't learn that base skill to be able to build on it later and 
>perhaps later the dog doesn't know which way to go in the mall 
>because there is no obvious choice. Because the person hasn't 
>learned to recognize other clues in the environment, they don't know 
>how to direct the dog.
>
>Raven, you seem to have very good O&M skills.  For you it may make 
>little difference if you went through center training with a cane or 
>dog, but having worked at a center, I can absolutely tell you that 
>the huge majority of people are not like you.  They are attending 
>the center training because they need to better their skills, all of 
>their skills.    We do have people attend our center with their 
>guide dog.  Here they work their dog in their free time, before and 
>after classes and at the lunch break.  As the training progresses, 
>the dog is incorporated into travel class and other times.  By the 
>very end of training, the person will be back to working the dog the 
>majority of the time.
>
>We all know that dogs get sick,  tragic things happen and eventually 
>the dog will need to retire.  For about 99.9% of us this means using 
>a cane when the dog is unavailable.   It's unrealistic to think that 
>someone will be able to work their dog 100% of the time for the 
>person's entire lifetime.   So if you don't have decent cane skills 
>this means you are going to need a human guide, put your life on 
>hold or have two dogs at all times. Seems to me having learned to 
>use a cane would be a good base skill to have.
>
>I know that all of the programs have requirements about being able 
>to use a cane or show that you have good O&M skills.  But let's be 
>brutally honest with ourselves for a minute,  we all know that what 
>passes for good O&M skills varies widely from program to program.  I 
>also cannot begin to count the number of stories I have heard from 
>people who attended a program and had classmates who couldn't find 
>their way around without significant help. To me it's pretty clear 
>that folks with guide dogs do not all have good orientation 
>skills.  Perhaps we could work with the guide dog programs to help 
>them better understand the importance of acquiring good orientation 
>training before getting a dog.
>
>You made the argument that a dog is your preferred mobility tool and 
>the center programs should support that decision.  I think they do, 
>but that they also recognize that a dog is a mobility tool and that 
>there is more to independent travel than mobility.    What if a 
>person went to a center and said they use GPS, so they don't need to 
>learn orientation skills?  that would be silly and no one would 
>think that a good idea.  GPS only goes so far in getting you where 
>you want to go.  It doesn't tell you when it's safe to cross the 
>street, when there are stairs, when there's road construction or 
>when a kid has parked his bike across the sidewalk.  If someone went 
>to a center and said they didn't need to learn to use the stovetop 
>because they were going to eat microwave dinners for the rest of 
>their life, no one would think that a good idea either.   The 
>centers recognize that personal independence through skill training 
>includes a wide variety of skills.  It means moving out of your 
>comfort zone and learning new things.  Perhaps there are people who 
>only use the microwave to cook, but the point is that after center 
>training that's a choice, not a necessity.  To me that's what it's 
>really about, having the choice to pick from a wide variety of 
>skills to find the one that best fits the particular situation I 
>find myself in.
>
>Julie
>
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         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org