[nagdu] ownership

Fri Jul 10 23:29:13 UTC 2015

If ownership isn't a big deal and the schools aren't going to take your dog 
anyway, then what difference  does it make to give ownership?  I mean if it 
truly makes no difference, then folks should be good with either ownership 
or not, but the people who say it's not a big deal are opposed to ownership. 
Can someone explain this to me?

Julie
Courage to Dare: A Blind Woman's Quest to Train her Own Guide Dog is now 
available! Get the book here:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QXZSMOC
-----Original Message----- 
From: Marilyn tucci via nagdu
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 6:04 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Cc: Marilyn tucci
Subject: [nagdu] ownership

Danielle well said. I am a Lion and we give donations to schools . We do
a lot of fund raising to donate this money. Next year my local Lions
club will be sponsoring another dog . I really don't know why everyone
is making such  a big deal about ownership. The schools don't and won't
take your dogs back unless you abuse it or neglect it. Believe me they
don't want your dog. they just want the dog to guide you safely and have
a good life with you until they retire. I have retired 3 dogs. GDF never
gave me a problem . They were happy they were given to good homes. One
dog I kept  even though I had a pet dogs and new guide dog..
Marilyn and Anna

On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 04:10 PM, Danielle Sykora via nagdu wrote:

> There seems to be two main arguments why some people do not support
> unconditional ownership:
> 1. Guide dogs are a gift that blind people should feel gratitude for
> and indebted to the school.
> 2. Conditional ownership prevents mistreatment of the dog.
>
> I have never really understood the view that guide dogs are gifts from
> the training programs. Yes, the trainers put a lot of time and money
> into the dogs; however, it is their job which they are being paid to
> complete. The money doesn't come from the school. The dogs are paid
> for by public donations. If anything, guide dog users should feel
> gratitude toward the puppy raisers and donors, the ones who have given
> time and money to enable the dogs' training. Feeling gratitude however
> does not mean that you owe anyone anything. When someone gives you a
> gift, they expect you to appreciate their time and effort, but they
> don't expect to be repaid.
>
> Retaining ownership of a dog will not prevent mistreatment by the
> owner. This is part of the reason why their is a screening process, to
> determine which applicants would make suitable handlers. At most, the
> school can repossess a dog after an incident has already occurred. Of
> course, an excessively overweight dog could be taken away from the
> handler for example, but wouldn't it be more effective to emphasize
> proper nutrition and identification of ideal body condition? As others
> have pointed out though, local laws are already in place to remove
> dogs from dangerous situations. Perhaps we could put more effort into
> educating animal control on what is or is not appropriate treatment of
> a service animal (which isn't too much different from a regular pet)
> instead of promoting the practice of giving guide dog schools more
> power than  is necessary.
>
> I chose to attend a school that offers unconditional ownership upon
> graduation because I believe this should be the norm, not the
> exception. I know GDF and TSE offer unconditional ownership and I
> believe GDA and Freedom do as well.
>
>
> Danielle, Thai, and Bonnie (GDF puppy in training)
>
> On 7/10/15, Jody Ianuzzi via nagdu  wrote:
>> I find it very disturbing that the membership voted on resolutions that 
>> they
>> didn't know anything about as with the guy dog ownership resolution and 
>> NAC.
>> There needs to be more explanation at the time of the vote or preceding 
>> the
>> convention.
>>
>> What guide dog schools offer ownership now?
>>
>> JODY thunderwalker321 at gmail.com
>>
>> "There's no point in being grown up if you can't be childish sometimes."
>> DOCTOR WHO (Tom Baker)
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 10, 2015, at 12:20 PM, margo and isis via nagdu wrote:
>>>
>>> First of all, a resolution passed by our organization is policy. Second,
>>> I don't understand why this didn't pass because NFB is always fiddling
>>> with companies' and agencies' policies.  I do not understand why guide 
>>> dog
>>> schools are put on pedestals higher than any other entity.  I also don't
>>> understand why NFB members are so against unconditional ownership. In
>>> NFB, we have high expectations of our capabilities but not passing this
>>> resolution to me shows a lack of faith in blind people by many of our 
>>> own
>>> membership.
>>>
>>> Margo and Isis
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Shannon Dyer
>>> via nagdu
>>> Sent: Friday, July 10, 2015 10:27 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Shannon Dyer
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The membership has spoken, and I am disappointed
>>>
>>> Hi, all.
>>>
>>> I mean no disrespect here. I’m just seeking to understand the resolution
>>> better.
>>>
>>> So, if it had passed, how would this have affected the schools? For
>>> example, if I chose to go to a school that did not grant immediate
>>> ownership, how would this resolution have helped me? My understanding is
>>> that the guide dog schools are independent entities. How does this
>>> resolution get them to change their policies?
>>>
>>> Curiously,
>>> Shannon and the Acelet
>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:59 PM, Becky Sabo via nagdu wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hey Tina, I agree it shouldn't not gone to the rollcall upstate. At
>>>> least it did not go through. Becky Sabo
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 9, 2015, at 9:44 PM, Tina Thomas via nagdu  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So this went to a counted vote by the state delegates?  Where can I go
>>>>> to see which state voted which way?
>>>>>
>>>>> And was this announced on this list?  I honestly had no idea this
>>>>> resolution was being presented until it was way too late to talk to 
>>>>> the
>>>>> people in my state about it.  Hopefully they know my thoughts on the
>>>>> subject, but I'm not there and it bothers me that I didn't know to be
>>>>> able to explain my views beforehand.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julie
>>>>>
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