[nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers

[Michael Forzano]

I don't think it's a matter of opinion whether or not the centers are
discriminating. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. A guide dog user
cannot attend one of the centers without risking their dog having to
be retired, which, at least in my case, makes a center not an option
if I needed independence training. Saying that guide dog users should
just go somewhere else is discrimination. There's a reason the centers
are so highly recommended, most other, non-NFB centers (at least the
ones I know of) do not provide adequate training on how to live truly
independently. It's super frustrating to me that other guide dog users
and specifically the leaders of NAGDU do not understand this. Raven
asked a lot of great questions, and I think they deserve to be
answered. I don't think one of us having a discussion with a center
director would be very productive. This seems like an issue we should
be tackling as an organization.

Mike

On 9/2/15, Michael Hingson via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Debby,
>
> I am not a moderator, but simply suggesting that I am hearing comments
> becoming more strident. We also are beginning to go around in circles which
> is not helpful. I am sure that people on this list have communicated the
> thread to center staff. What is continued discussion here going to
> accomplish?
>
> There have been some good suggestions made on the list. Why not consider
> having a conversation with a center director and report back to us the
> results.
>
> I tell you absolutely that my suggestion to cut off discussion would occur
> whether or not the discussion was about the NFB centers. Do NOT read into
> my
> words. I simply note that the discussion is getting testy. I suggested that
> we cease for the moment before the moderators do so.
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Debby Phillips
> via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 5:32 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; nagdu at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Debby Phillips <semisweetdebby at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guides at NFB training centers
>
> First of all, I do know that some people have chosen to leave Centers
> because their dogs couldn't handle the long absence of their person.  And
> some dogs have had to be retired because of it.  So it does happen.  But I
> also wonder why the moderators want to limit the discussion about this.  Is
> it because we are talking about NFB Centers? If we were talking about other
> Centous, I would bet that there would not be a call to limit or stop this
> discussion.  I think it's worth discussing.  Many of the same skills are
> necessary whether you use a dog or a cane.
> Getting lined up correctly at street crossings; listening to make sure that
> you and the dog aren't veering.  (Which happens, even with the best of
> dogs).  It is still important to know how to judge traffic.  That can
> certainly be learned using a dog as well as a cane.  The way I hear people
> talk about canes sometimes is that they're magic wands.  If I learn to use
> a
> cane and do it well, then somehow I've arrived.  We as dog users know that
> that's bunk.  Sure it's good to have good cane skills.  And yes, practicing
> using your cane sometimes is a good idea.  An excellent idea.  Sure our
> dogs
> give us subtle signals, but if we don't follow those signals well, then we
> are not being the best dog handlers we can be.  If Centers are going to be
> in the forefront, I think it is time to re-examine the dog guide issue and
> perhaps to make some changes that would make it possible for
> people to do part of their travel training using a dog.    Debby
> and Nova
>
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