[nagdu] Talking points for convos with training centers' directors

Thu Sep 3 03:14:07 UTC 2015

Cindy, I have to agree with you here.  We will get further if we try
to have an honest give and take conversation rather than go in
threatening a law suit without discussion. I think we also need to
keep an open mind and I would ask the centers to do the same thing.

On 9/2/15, Cindy Ray via nagdu <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Woe, Sandra. The majority has your sensze on it, but if you asked the
> question you are proposing, you would have them so on the defensive right
> off the get go that you would not get anywhere. This is a fact finding
> mission and you don't want to sling arrows at those.
> I think it would be interesting to see how many people have determined not
> to come because of the dog policy and, in fact, if any have threatened to
> sue.
> Cindy Lou Ray
> cindyray at gmail.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of S L Johnson via
> nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, September 2, 2015 9:27 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: S L Johnson <SLJohnson25 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Talking points for convos with training centers'
> directors
>
> Raven:
>
> Excellent list of questions.  I would ask how or why they think they can
> get
> away with violating the ADA by not allowing guide dog user's equal access
> to
> all areas and activities of their programs and facilities.  To me, they are
> in direct violation of this federal law.  As I said before, how can we
> expect the rest of the country to follow the ADA when the NFB doesn't do it
> and daily denies access to those using guide dogs.  This doesn't make sense
> and must be stopped immediately.  I am amazed that this discrimination is
> still going on after all these years.  I am also amazed that we haven't
> seen
> lawsuits from guide dog user's who have been denied access with their dogs
> at the NFB Centers.  I've never attended any kind of rehab center but,
> believe me if I did, I would not tolerate this kind of discrimination.  It
> is about time that all guide dog user's start fighting back when we are
> denied equal access.  It is particularly offensive when it is the  major
> advocacy organization for the blind doing the discriminating.  NFB, SHAME
> ON
> YOU AND NAGDU, SHAME ON YOU FOR NOT FIGHTING THIS!!!
>
> Sandra
> SLJohnson25 at comcast.net
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raven Tolliver via nagdu
> Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2015 10:02 PM
> To: nagdu
> Cc: Raven Tolliver
> Subject: [nagdu] Talking points for convos with training centers' directors
>
> Below is a list of some of the questions I will use as guidelines to direct
> my conversations with the training center directors, in the event that
> these
> individuals are reachable.
> Some of these questions can probably be combined.
> If you think a question sounds offensive or off-putting, let me know which
> ones and why.
>
> 1. What is your center's policy on guide dog use during classes?
>
> 2. In the past, did your center permit the use of a guide dog during
> classes?
> (If so, why was this permissive policy reversed?
> or
> Why does your center prohibit the use of guide dogs during all classes?
>
> 3. What difficulties or problems arise when teaching NFB philosophy and
> independent living skills to a student using a guide dog?
> and/or:
> 4. What specific concepts are impossible or challenging to teach to a
> traveler using a guide dog rather than a cane or alongside a cane?
>
> 5. What fundamentals of NFB philosophy and independent living skills are
> disrupted by allowing the use of a guide dog during all classes?
>
> 6. Why does your center choose not to phase in or reintroduce the guide dog
> into the student's class time and O&M lessons?
>
> 7. Do you think using a guide dog is against NFB philosophy? Or, does it
> contradict the way the NFB would like to portray blind people, or the way
> the NFB would like blind people to think of themselves?
>
> 8. Have any clients accused you of practicing discrimination by restricting
> the use of a guide dog during classes?
>
> 9. How is your policy against guide dog use during class not a
> discriminatory policy?
>
> 10. Are you in favor of working toward incorporating guide dogs into the
> training of guide dog travelers? Why or why not?
>
> 11. Are the O&M instructors at your center willing to devise a plan for
> learning how to teach O&M to students using guide dogs?
>
> Thanks for any input.
> If you prefer to make any comments off list, email Ravend729 at gmail.com.
> --
> Raven
> Founder of 1AM Editing & Research
> www.1am-editing.com
>
> You are valuable because of your potential, not because of what you have or
> what you do.
>
> Naturally-reared guide dogs
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/nrguidedogs
>
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-- 
Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
(513) 607-6053