[NAGDU] Using positive reinforcement instead of punishment

Tue Dec 19 03:12:50 UTC 2017

Oh my! I think I suddenly became a clicker fan. <Giggle>
I should be ashamed, yes? I am not even working with a dog now.
Cindy Lou Ray
cindyray at gmail.com

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Becky
Frankeberger via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 6:42 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Becky Frankeberger <b.butterfly at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Using positive reinforcement instead of punishment

Yiska, there is a clicker list for Seeing Eye grads. Lukas Franck is on that
list to give tips.
Becky 

-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Yiska via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 3:08 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Yiska <ichoosechrist2 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Using positive reinforcement instead of punishment

Yes that does help thank you.
Yiska

On Dec 18, 2017 15:51, "Tami Jarvis via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Yiska,
>
> I use clicker training to owner-train my dogs. Since I'm training them 
> from the ground up, I use successive approximation to mold the 
> behaviors for guide work over time. If the dog does mess up once he is 
> trained, I just rework the obstacle, reward him for getting it right 
> and move on. Both of my dogs make few mistakes. For self-rewarding 
> behaviors like sniffing, I simply redirect and reward the dog for 
> redirecting. With my current boy, if he's really in a sniffy mood, I 
> get further with lures, then rewards than I do if I take a negative 
> approach. Generally, I can just say, "Leave it, forward," to get him 
> back on track. So "no" doesn't really come into the equation, since 
> the positive command for what I want him to do does the trick. I also 
> use time outs, just having him stand still until he's ready to get his 
> head back on the job, then we move on. He doesn't like having to turn 
> around and do something over, so we'll do that a time or two if he's 
> being
really stubborn. That doesn't happen often.
>
> Around the house, we'll make some sort of noise if one of the dogs is 
> crossing a boundary, but for the most part, I use "leave it," and so 
> on. If I do use a negatory, it doesn't matter what I say, since I'm 
> using tone and body language to remind the dog to straighten out.
> Sometimes the word that comes out is "no," but often as not, it's an
unarticulated kind of sound.
> Just whatever comes out first.
>
> I don't give a food reward every time I click or use a verbal marker, 
> like "good," so I can reinforce positive behaviors without slowing 
> down. I use actual treats Las Vegas style, meaning randomly, once the 
> dog
is trained.
> At this point, Loki doesn't need much reinforcement for doing the job, 
> but he does better with a bit of cheerleading now and then.
>
> hth,
>
> Tami
>
> On 12/18/2017 02:23 PM, Yiska via NAGDU wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am wondering about clicker training and positive reinforcement when 
>> it comes to guide work. How do you get a dog to do the right task 
>> after messing up. For example the dog misses an overhead obstacle.
>> Normally one would leash correct and then rework. How would you 
>> rework if the dog does not get it the first or fourth time? Normally 
>> you would increase corrections. Also for those who clicker train do 
>> you have a disapproval marker like no? I am trying to use much more 
>> positive training but struggled with my last dog. From what I have 
>> learned from youtube there are lots of basic tasks for clicker but 
>> not much past that.
>>
>> I get my dog in January from the seeing eye and am very excited.
>> Yiska
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>>
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