[NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

Wed Mar 22 15:06:34 UTC 2017

Hi, Charlene.

that's one of the positives about working with a dog.  Eventually you both 
develop your own shorthand.

The dog learns what pre-correction mode is, so a slight jiggle of the collar 
on the neck would be sufficient for the dog to get refocused.  I think some 
people assume that any correction is a bad one or any correction should 
always be of the same strength.

Lisa Belville
missktlab1217 at frontier.com
IF THE HOUSEWORK IS DONE - THEN THE COMPUTER IS Broken!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlene Ota via NAGDU" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "Charlene Ota" <caota4 at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:34 PM
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?

>I remember riding in an elevator with a couple of other dog guide users at 
>a
> convention. My dog started sniffing at one of the other dogs, I said no
> firmly a couple times and he didn't respond like I'd like so I picked up 
> his
> leash and jangled his collar a bit and he immediately focused again and 
> that
> was the end of it. One of the other dog users said something to the effect
> of "What kind of a correction was that, that was no correction!" I can't
> remember if I actually answered the person or just left it alone, but I 
> know
> I thought to myself, well that's all that was needed. He's a very soft 
> dog,
> he doesn't respond to hard leash corrections. His trainer was into 
> positive
> reinforcement so that's how he was trained and it seems to work for him 
> just
> fine. I can't remember ever having to give him a hard leash correction in
> the 9 years that I have worked with him. I also don't use a clicker, the
> trainer wasn't using them at the time either. I think we just have to
> remember that all dogs aren't the same, they have different personalities
> and different needs. There are several training techniques that if done
> correctly are very effective, too. The best thing we can do is apply what 
> we
> are told at the school by the trainer that trained our dogs and go from
> there. If we find we need to add something, then hopefully, we do it with
> the dog's best interests in mind and utilize their strengths as best as we
> can.
>
> Charlene
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of The Pawpower 
> Pack
> via NAGDU
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 5:52 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?
>
> Cinndy,
> I think that using language like "a slave to the clicker"does a disservice
> to those and is pretty disrespectful of, people who use this method.
> I have clicker trained my last 4 working dogs, and am no more a "slave" 
> to
> my clicker than I imagine you are to your correction collars.
> You have stated you use corrections sometimes, I use treats sometimes.
> There are people who can and do use any method poorly, but that is not the
> fault of the method.
> I can't remember the last time I carried around a clicker and food for
> Soleil, who is 6 and who works great daily without them.
>
>
> Rox and the kitchen Bitches:
> Mill'E, Laveau, Soleil
> Pawpower4me at gmail.com
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 21, 2017, at 1:30 PM, Cindy Ray via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have certainly noted a change to click and treat. When I ot my first
> dog,
>> there were not treats given at all. That gradually changed. I think at
> some
>> level soft dogs are created by soft discipline, and I think the "old
> school"
>> is often better. I, like you, Joe, am not mean or really rough, though
> I've
>> been accused of it. The animal rights folks create headaches for us for
> sure
>> because many of them don't even think the dogs should be doing this work.
>> However, now there is a lot more leaning toward click and treat or treat;
> I
>> still do not do it. I do what I must at the school; then I go home and do
>> what I always did and it works. If something is working well that I was
>> taught during the training, I would retain it, of course. But I think 
>> that
> I
>> would prefer not to be a slave to clickers and treats.
>> Cindy Lou Ray
>> cindyray at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco via
>> NAGDU
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2017 11:35 AM
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [NAGDU] Softer Dogs?
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> The recent thread on obedience got me thinking about the way it feels as
>> though guide dog schools have grown softer in their approach to
> correction.
>>
>> I received Gator from The Seeing Eye in 2004. I trained under Pete
> Jackson,
>> a no nonsense instructor who worked very hard at understanding where the
>> canine was coming from but not cutting any slack where a hard correction
> was
>> warranted. High collars, while not eagerly encouraged, were a standard
>> recommendation.
>>
>> I went back to TSE in 2015 and received Matthew. The training atmosphere
> was
>> noticeably more relaxed where corrections were concerned. If high collars
>> were mentioned at all, it was probably because I asked about it. It felt
> as
>> though there was a greater lean toward clickers and treats.
>>
>> So, my question: For those of you who have handled dogs for a while, have
>> you noticed a similar trend, and if so, how have you adjusted your own
>> handling practices? I sometimes feel mean for running a tight ship with
>> Matthew, but I feel in some ways as though my first guide dog instruction
>> set the mood for my discipline philosophy moving forward. I was never one
> to
>> be unnecessarily aggressive. It looks publically awkward, and I think 
>> such
>> tactics have diminishing returns.
>> Yet, I am quick to leash correct for what may otherwise be considered
> small
>> infractions. How much of your own philosophy do you retain after bringing
>> your guide dog home?
>>
>> Thanks for any ponderings on the subject.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Joe
>>
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