[NAGDU] Choosing the Appropriate Guide Dog School

[Aleeha Dudley]

Hi David, 
Let me address your questions one at a time. I've put my answers below your questions for convenience. 
Great questions, Aleeha! These are my thoughts so far. 
> 1. I can definitely see the benefits of owning the dog outright. But I would be curious as to how often a dog is repossessed, and generally, for what reasons. Also, I wonder if there may be other differences in attitudes from trainers and staff towards students between schools where you own the dog, and schools where you don't. I expect to be treated as a responsible adult.  
> I have heard of, both from friends and not, dogs being removed for little to no reason by schools who threw their weight around. It's not my job to poke fingers, but I've seen a dog get removed because a client called about an issue and, rather than working it out with the client on site, the school removed the dog to take care of it at the school, destroying the bond between young dog and new handler in the process. Personally, I don't want to be afraid of what my school will do if I call them about an issue. I don't want to be treated like a child who cannot make decisions. I've also experienced friends being told by schools that they must not feed this food or use this third party equipment, like a nylon leash or harness that does not have the school's name written on it. Also, some ownership retaining schools do mandatory visits to check on you and your dog after graduation, and may require submission of veterinary reports indicating your dog's level of health.

> 2. I may need veterinary assistance in the short term, but once I find full-time employment, it may not be as much of an issue. How much does it usually cost annually for average vet care, or does it depend on the dog and its lifestyle?
I have spent close to $1000 this year on Whitley, but $400 of it was an emergency visit because she ingested a ton of something she should not have. It would be great if the dog only had to go in once a year for a $150 exam and update of shots, but that's not always the case. It really does depend on the health of the dog. I successfully cared for a dog on SSI,  while living by myself and covering all expenses. 

> 3. Right now, my schedule is very open, but I can't justify turning down a work opportunity if it comes up within the next few months, which could affect my availability. So perhaps I should get my dog sooner rather than later before I get busier again. 
Yes,  definitely. Just make sure to tell the school this so that they give you the right dog that can handle your activity level. You also will need to show the school that you are out and about regularly, at least 2 miles or so a day. 
> 4. I am not picky about gender or breed, but rather on the dog's skills, strengths, and weaknesses. I need a dog ready to work wherever and whenever, walking several miles throughout the day. The dog also needs to be able to walk very fast through busy city streets. I need a guide dog school who will best be able to match me with a dog who I can work well with over the course of its service. How do the schools differ in their O&M assessments? 
Some schools ask for a video, but several, including both that you have mentioned, will send a trainer out to assess your skills. Mainly, it just involves proving you can safely navigate and cross streets, and that your environment is safe for a guide. As mentioned above, you'll also need to prove that you are out and about. 
> 
> 5. I'm still learning the pros and cons between the two methods. Clicker and treat based training sounds like it has some potential, but I'd like to hear from people who've experienced both methods. Why do you prefer the method you use?

I prefer praise based training simply because I don't like the idea of constantly having to stop and give a treat for every little thing. I think treats are useful in some situations, when teaching a difficult task, for example, but I want my dog to work for me because it wants to, not because it knows it will receive food for everything. I'm also personally not a fan of constantly slobbery fingers, but that's just me. Next, I say this because it's all I've experienced, so please no one take offense. I also think that a lot of softer dogs graduate nowadays, but I need a dog who can take initiative and be strong willed and brave enough  to handle any situation I throw at her, no matter how scary it might seem, and not balk at it. I also need her to   refuse to go forward, for example, if there is a car turning in front of me. I'm not saying treat trained dogs don't, but I do think that if this dog were any softer, she wouldn't. This comes with the dog, at least in my experience, being a little more stubborn and requiring a bit of the old-school corrections in some cases: not hard, mind you, but occasional minor leash corrections. My dog would love food reward, but would be twisting herself into a pretzel looking for my treat bag if I had one on me. It just doesn't work for her. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but it wouldn't work for me. 
> 6. What types of follow-up services are offered?
> Follow-up mainly refers to being able to call the school and discuss an issue with a trainer. I think all the schools offer this. The other part is that a lot of the bigger schools will send out a trainer if an issue cannot be resolved over the phone.

> 7. What are the benefits of contact with the raisers? Also, how do the different schools place the puppies, and what are the requirements for raisers? 
> I know that people enjoy being able to talk directly with the raiser to be able to learn more about their dog as a puppy and to keep them updated on their dog. Seeing Eye allows the handler to send letters to the raiser without identifying information, to pass along updates or send thanks. The puppy raiser's responsibilities are numerous, and include teaching basic obedience, socializing the puppy,  and many more. Thanks!
> David   
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Aleeha Dudley <blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi David,
>> 
>> You are right: there is a lot that goes into your choice of guide dog training program. A lot of folks will tell you that one school is better because of this or that quality, but it really comes down to what you want. I've listed some examples below, but I'm sure other list members will have more. 
>> 1. Do you want full ownership of your dog upon graduation from the program? Some schools will make you wait for a year or two, and a couple will give full ownership upon graduation from the program. Some schools have been known to list in their contracts that they can repossess the dog at any time for any reason. This is why I, personally, chose The Seeing Eye over others.
>> 
>> 2. Do you need a veterinary assistance program? Some schools offer this, but they are generally not the ones that offer full ownership upon graduating. 
>> 3. Do you have time constraints? The length of a program varies from 2 to 4 weeks, depending on school. Schools usually cover transportation and meals, but if your work schedule won't permit 3 and a half weeks' leave, it's something to consider. 
>> 4. Are you picky as to what dog you want? Most schools train labs, lab/golden crosses, and golden retrievers. Most won't give a poodle to someone without a legit medical reason, and there are only a couple of schools who don't have long waiting lists for German shepherds. Keep in mind that, if you want to be specific on the breed or gender, you may wait a little longer for that dog than if you were not specific. 
>> 5. Do you want treat or praise based training? Many schools are going to treats as a primary reinforcer for good behavior, but some people, like myself, prefer more traditional methods of training. 
>> 6. How good is the follow-up from the school? Will they come visit you if needed? 
>> 7. Do you want puppy raiser contact? The Seeing Eye does not allow this, although some people have gotten around it. 
>> These are just a few things to consider. I hope it helps.
>> 
>> Aleeha and Whitley 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2017, at 3:12 PM, David Bouchard via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> I have been travelling with a cane all of my life, but recently had the chance to try a dog out on a group tour of Guide Dogs for the Blind, and was pretty much sold on it because of the fluidity of movement I experienced with the dog, and the potential for the dog to find certain things like chairs and doors. Now I need to decide which guide dog school to pursue. I live in Portland, OR, and while GOODB seems to be a good fit based on my initial impression, I am aware that there is considerable controversy about which school provides the best dog, and also what training methods are best. What factors did you consider when making your  decision on an appropriate school? I am also considering the Seeing Eye as an option, and am open to other possibilities. Thanks, and I look forward to hearing from you.
>>> David 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
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