[NAGDU] VRBO rentals

Sun Sep 17 20:32:49 UTC 2017

Janelle,

You are new to having a guide dog, so perhaps there are some things you 
don't know or haven't thought about.

Where would this ID you are suggesting come from?  If it's a program, what 
gives them the authority?  Or why would it be different if I opened my own 
program and started making ID's for myself?

If the government is going to provide this ID, who is going to pay for it? 
Remember there are laws preventing additional charges for being accompanied 
by a service dog.    Who is going to train these people?

What would make the dog legitimate? Remember that there are all sorts of 
disabilities and varying needs within those disabilities.  What if the way I 
chose to work my dog is different from the next person, whose method is 
right?

In order for a dog to be considered to be a service dog it must be 
individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a 
disability.  So if we go to this ID thing everyone who wants to work with a 
service dog would need to prove their disability.  That's pretty 
straightforward for blindness, but what about a veteran with PTSD?  How 
exactly do you measure that?  And is it ethical to do so?

And if that isn't enough food for thought, take a look at the recent 
proposed guidelines in Canada.  It isn't a law, but rather a set of 
guidelines that would be used to formulate laws.  It sets a bad precedent 
though and if the U.S. goes that direction, I would stop using a guide dog 
before letting someone in my home to determine whether or not I provide 
enough play time for my dog and other similar seriously intrusive scrutiny.

I don't think the so called fake service dogs are a problem.  I think the 
problem is poorly trained dogs for actual people with actual disabilities. 
Sure there are some truly selfish folks who fake a disability to take their 
dog places it shouldn't be, but the much, much bigger problem is disabled 
people trying to do the best they can with limited resources and coming up a 
bit short.  I think we need to put the focus on the behavior of the dog.  I 
also think any time and money spent on this issue would be best put to use 
by developing programs that assist people with disabilities who want to work 
with a service dog, but aren't willing or able to attend a traditional 
program option.

Julie
On The Go with Guide-and-Service-Dogs.com
http://www.guide-and-service-dogs.com
also find my products in the Blind Mice Mega Mall
<https://www.blindmicemegamall.com/bmm/shop/Directory_Departments?storeid=1916046>
-----Original Message----- 
From: Janell via NAGDU
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 2:55 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Cc: Janell
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] VRBO rentals

Hello Wayne,

Thank you for clarifying the "certified" issue.  I am 100% aware that my 
guide dog ID is in no way a legal document.  With that being said I have 
absolutely no problem providing it.  I did explain to the owner that I do 
not have to provide anything but nevertheless I personally have no problem 
showing it.  And, quite frankly I think if we were asked to provide some 
form of identification it would cut down on the imposter service animals out 
there.  I know that statement will most likely open a can of worms, but it 
is my opinion.  I will not chastise you on your opinion of not sharing an 
identification, I would like to be afforded the same curtesy.
-Janell
-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Wayne & Harley 
via NAGDU
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 12:28 PM
To: Janell via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Wayne & Harley <k9dad at k9di.org>
Subject: Re: [NAGDU] VRBO rentals

*Hello Ms. Janell,
First of all I'm sorry the owner is acting like this about Sully.  BTW:
the ADA does apply, in this instance, since the rental is less than thirty 
days.
However, I would like to correct a misconception that you put forth in your 
post.
Sully is a Service Animal/Guide Dog under the law. He is not, however, a 
"Certified" Service Animal/Guide Dog. The law does not require, nor 
recognize such.  Therefore, there is, in the United States at least, no such 
thing as a "Certified Service Animal/Guide Dog".
More worrisome, is your statement that you were ready to show Sully's 
"certification". What form does this take? The ID issued to you by your 
school?? That ID, literally, has zero legal standing. May I ask why would 
you want to make life more difficult for Service Animal teams that this 
owner would encounter after your family's time in her home was over? For 
example, not everyone has a programme trained Service Animal. in fact, 
outside of the Guide Dog Owning world the VAST majority of Service Animals 
are Owner Trained. This is for a variety of reasons, that I will not bore 
you with at this particular point in time. I am, however, one of the ranks 
of Owner Trainers. My Harley D, while not trained by a programme is fully 
trained as my Guide Dog. Now, hypothetically, what would happen if I 
approached the homeowner about a rental for say, April. I informed her about 
Harley D accompanying me and she demanded "Certification", "just like that 
nice young person did in February".
     To recap, the homeowner, as per, the ADA, can only ask you the two 
legal questions.
     Have a fabulous day!

Wayne And Harley D

*On 9/16/2017 2:40 PM, Janell via NAGDU wrote:
> Hi gang,
>
>
>
> I have a question about renting a VRBO house.  My family has rented
> one in Florida next Feb for a week.  When I made the reservation the
> lady told me I could not bring my guide dog Sully.  I explained to her
> that he was an actual certified guide dog and not one of these crazy
> imposter ESA dogs.  I even told her I would provide her a copy of his
> vet records and his certification documentation.  Her response back to
> me was "someone else who rents from her is allergic to dogs so I would not 
> be able to bring Sully."
> I am not sure of my rights regarding this?  Any thoughts or advice
> would be appreciated!
>
>
>
> Very frustrated, Janell and Sully
>
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