[NAGDU] Food rewards, was questions about American Guide dog programs; is: food in training

Mon May 20 16:43:36 UTC 2019

Good morning to all,
When I had Wayne the weird, an instructor came from The Seeing Eye to work with us. He introduced me to clicker training. I didn’t like carrying around food, and I could never figure out how you would end the treats and, for that matter, the clicker. It didn’t work well for me, though I’m not sure anything would have. As for what GDB does, someone who has recently attended that school should enlighten us on what their method is in that regard. Viviana mentioned looking at their website, but it would be better to talk to a person who is the real deal. I feel it is a problem if food is used exclusively in behavioral modification and maintenance, but that will always be my opinion no matter what.
Cindy Lou Ray
Cindyray at gmail.com

Cindy Lou Ray
Sent from my iPhone

> On May 20, 2019, at 10:15 AM, Tracy Carcione via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> It's my understanding that GDB does not use the clicker, only treats.
> 
> Krokus would like to be a GDB dog.  He does great when he gets a treat,
> and, when the treats stop, the behavior drops off.
> 
> I'm kinda bummed about GDB these days.  I had great dogs from there, but
> that was before they started their new methods.  Now I don't feel I can go
> back there, because I don't want to carry around pocketfulls of treats
> every day, and I'm not sure it produces a thoughtful dog. But it's been a
> long time since I've met a GDB dog, so I could be wrong about that.
> Tracy
> 
>> Hey Deb,
>> There should be no need to shove food in your pockets every time you go
>> out, and if that is what GDB's approach is, then I'm going to step out on
>> a limb and say "they are doing clicker training wrong."
>> A clicker is a tool, like a prong collar is a tool. If I were to use a
>> prong collar for my dog, the goal would be eventually for my dog not to
>> need it, or to only need it in very specific, very high distraction or
>> other similar environments.
>> I currently am working 2 dogs, both were trained exclusively with the
>> clicker, one is 2, one is 8.5.  Neither of them require that I have food
>> on my body to work. Food is a great motivator and can be very helpful for
>> many of the guide dog breeds such as labs, but its not forever.  Unless
>> there is a very specific situation, such as a national convention where
>> the distraction level is very high, there should be no need.
>> I totally see your point though about bringing food everywhere with you,
>> and its a shame that this is becoming necessary for their dogs.
>> 
>> 
>> Rox'E and the Kitchen Bitches
>> Soleil, Rowan, Phoenix
>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>> 
>>> On May 20, 2019, at 8:43 AM, Debra Chandler via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm sure Seeing Eye accepts students from Canada but not sure about
>>> other countries.  I found last night's presentation re GDB very
>>> interesting.  However I don't agree with such a food-driven approach to
>>> training.  I personally am not going to fill my pockets with treats
>>> every time I work my dog and reward my dog with a treat every time it
>>> does something correctly.  The clicker is fine for certain behaviors
>>> like  finding a traffic light pole.  But I'm just not comfortable with
>>> using treats as reinforcers on a regular basis.
>>> Deb and Tally
>>> ---- Tracy Lloyd via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> I too would be interested to discover which, if any, of the US schools
>>>> will
>>> except applications from other countries, especially european ones?  I'm
>>> in
>>> the UK, and had thought that only Pilot would take applications from the
>>> UK
>>> and Europe.  anyone have any more info?
>>> 
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Leye-Shprintse Öberg via NAGDU
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 10:25 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Cc: Leye-Shprintse Öberg
>>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions about American Guide Dog Programs
>>> 
>>> בס’ד
>>> 
>>> Danielle,
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your answer. Now, I know where I’ll start my research.
>>> 
>>> Sandra,
>>> 
>>> Some American guide dog programs accept international students and some
>>> others don’t do it.
>>> 
>>> לשלום,
>>> Leye-Shprintse Oeberg
>>> Sweden
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 19 maj 2019 kl. 22:37 skrev Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello,
>>>> I thought you have to live in America to apply for a dog from an
>>>> American school. Can an applicant be domiciled in another part of the
>>>> world entirely and still apply to an American school? I only ask
>>>> because I couldn't help noticing Sweden at the end of the first email
>>>> in this thread.
>>>> 
>>>> Very best wishes,
>>>> Sandra.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/19/19, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> The US programs that give ownership upon graduation are Seeing Eye,
>>>>> GDF,
>>>>> and
>>>>> Freedom for sure, and I believe Pilot and GDA as well. Other programs
>>>>> either
>>>>> give ownership after a period of time, or say they give ownership but
>>>>> still
>>>>> have the ability to remove the dog in some situations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In terms of positive training methods, basically everyone is going to
>>>>> tell
>>>>> you the program they went to used positive methods because obviously
>>>>> you
>>>>> can't train a dog without rewarding them for their appropriate
>>>>> behavior.
>>>>> The
>>>>> two programs that come to mind that truly strive to use the most
>>>>> positive
>>>>> methods possible are GDB and GDF.
>>>>> Danielle
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On May 19, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Leye-Shprintse Öberg via NAGDU
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> בס’ד
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’m researching guide dog programs for my next guide dog. I wonder
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> guide dog programs give ownership to the guide dog handler after
>>>>>> graduation and which dittos use positive training methods with their
>>>>>> dogs?
>>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> לשלום,
>>>>>> Leye-Shprintse Oeberg
>>>>>> Sweden
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>>> 
>>>> Soprano Singer
>>>> www.sandragayer.com
>>>> 
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>>>> www.rnibconnectradio.org.uk/music-box.html
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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