[NAGDU] Food rewards, was questions about American Guide dog programs; is: food in training

Sherry Gomes sherry.gomes at outlook.com
Mon May 20 21:25:38 UTC 2019


GDB does still use clicker. And they actually don't advocate giving food for everything. They use food reward a lot in the beginning, but students are encouraged to taper it off and then use it as needed or desired. I got my first dog from GDB in 1975, so it was almost 30 years before I was introduced to food rewards. And I argued with my class instructor about it. He told me they'd always used food rewards, to help dogs learn difficult new things for instance. I said I'd try it and I never have regretted it. The primary drive for a dog is food, so using that drive to teach new things, encourage the dog in stressful moments, or as part of the praise routine makes sense to me, and I've seen it do amazing things. In my last GDB class, I was amazed at how fast most of the dogs bonded to their new handlers too. In my neighborhood, finding light poles can be tricky due to their placement, which is a perfect time to use food reward and clicker. I don't use the clicker. I found it hard to manage clicker and food and get the timing right with the arthritis in my hands. And Petunia does not like food rewards, so I almost never have treats with me anymore. On the other hand, one of my previous guides and I had to cross a very frightening crossing when I walked to work every day, during the time I had her. It was extremely busy with lots of delivery trucks at the time of morning we were crossing there. The island was just a pole in the middle of the intersection. Once we were completely across and back on the sidewalk, I gave her a kibble every day, and tons of verbal and physical praise. The thing to know is that food rewards are not supposed to replace verbal and physical praise. They're supposed to augment normal praise, all of it done together. At least, that's how GDB does it.





-----Original Message-----
From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via NAGDU
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 9:16 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
Subject: [NAGDU] Food rewards, was questions about American Guide dog programs; is: food in training

It's my understanding that GDB does not use the clicker, only treats.

Krokus would like to be a GDB dog.  He does great when he gets a treat, and, when the treats stop, the behavior drops off.

I'm kinda bummed about GDB these days.  I had great dogs from there, but that was before they started their new methods.  Now I don't feel I can go back there, because I don't want to carry around pocketfulls of treats every day, and I'm not sure it produces a thoughtful dog. But it's been a long time since I've met a GDB dog, so I could be wrong about that.
Tracy

> Hey Deb,
> There should be no need to shove food in your pockets every time you 
> go out, and if that is what GDB's approach is, then I'm going to step 
> out on a limb and say "they are doing clicker training wrong."
> A clicker is a tool, like a prong collar is a tool. If I were to use a 
> prong collar for my dog, the goal would be eventually for my dog not 
> to need it, or to only need it in very specific, very high distraction 
> or other similar environments.
> I currently am working 2 dogs, both were trained exclusively with the 
> clicker, one is 2, one is 8.5.  Neither of them require that I have 
> food on my body to work. Food is a great motivator and can be very 
> helpful for many of the guide dog breeds such as labs, but its not 
> forever.  Unless there is a very specific situation, such as a 
> national convention where the distraction level is very high, there should be no need.
> I totally see your point though about bringing food everywhere with 
> you, and its a shame that this is becoming necessary for their dogs.
>
>
> Rox'E and the Kitchen Bitches
> Soleil, Rowan, Phoenix
> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>
>> On May 20, 2019, at 8:43 AM, Debra Chandler via NAGDU 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure Seeing Eye accepts students from Canada but not sure about 
>> other countries.  I found last night's presentation re GDB very 
>> interesting.  However I don't agree with such a food-driven approach 
>> to training.  I personally am not going to fill my pockets with 
>> treats every time I work my dog and reward my dog with a treat every 
>> time it does something correctly.  The clicker is fine for certain 
>> behaviors like  finding a traffic light pole.  But I'm just not 
>> comfortable with using treats as reinforcers on a regular basis.
>> Deb and Tally
>> ---- Tracy Lloyd via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> I too would be interested to discover which, if any, of the US 
>>> schools will
>> except applications from other countries, especially european ones?  
>> I'm in the UK, and had thought that only Pilot would take 
>> applications from the UK and Europe.  anyone have any more info?
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leye-Shprintse Öberg via NAGDU
>> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 10:25 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Cc: Leye-Shprintse Öberg
>> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions about American Guide Dog Programs
>>
>> בס’ד
>>
>> Danielle,
>>
>> Thank you for your answer. Now, I know where I’ll start my research.
>>
>> Sandra,
>>
>> Some American guide dog programs accept international students and 
>> some others don’t do it.
>>
>> לשלום,
>> Leye-Shprintse Oeberg
>> Sweden
>>
>>
>>> 19 maj 2019 kl. 22:37 skrev Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I thought you have to live in America to apply for a dog from an 
>>> American school. Can an applicant be domiciled in another part of 
>>> the world entirely and still apply to an American school? I only ask 
>>> because I couldn't help noticing Sweden at the end of the first 
>>> email in this thread.
>>>
>>> Very best wishes,
>>> Sandra.
>>>
>>>> On 5/19/19, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> The US programs that give ownership upon graduation are Seeing Eye, 
>>>> GDF, and Freedom for sure, and I believe Pilot and GDA as well. 
>>>> Other programs either give ownership after a period of time, or say 
>>>> they give ownership but still have the ability to remove the dog in 
>>>> some situations.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of positive training methods, basically everyone is going 
>>>> to tell you the program they went to used positive methods because 
>>>> obviously you can't train a dog without rewarding them for their 
>>>> appropriate behavior.
>>>> The
>>>> two programs that come to mind that truly strive to use the most 
>>>> positive methods possible are GDB and GDF.
>>>> Danielle
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On May 19, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Leye-Shprintse Öberg via NAGDU 
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> בס’ד
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m researching guide dog programs for my next guide dog. I 
>>>>> wonder which guide dog programs give ownership to the guide dog 
>>>>> handler after graduation and which dittos use positive training 
>>>>> methods with their dogs?
>>>>> Thank you!
>>>>>
>>>>> לשלום,
>>>>> Leye-Shprintse Oeberg
>>>>> Sweden
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sandra Gayer DipABRSM, LRSM.
>>>
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