[NAGDU] Food rewards, was questions about American Guide dog programs; is: food in training

Mon May 20 22:54:27 UTC 2019

I agree with you Sherry verbal and physical praise and food go together.
Find what motivates your dog. Also you have 7 seconds crom tbe time you
click to when you start reaching for the treat to reward your dog.
Yiska

On Mon, May 20, 2019, 15:26 Sherry Gomes via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> GDB does still use clicker. And they actually don't advocate giving food
> for everything. They use food reward a lot in the beginning, but students
> are encouraged to taper it off and then use it as needed or desired. I got
> my first dog from GDB in 1975, so it was almost 30 years before I was
> introduced to food rewards. And I argued with my class instructor about it.
> He told me they'd always used food rewards, to help dogs learn difficult
> new things for instance. I said I'd try it and I never have regretted it.
> The primary drive for a dog is food, so using that drive to teach new
> things, encourage the dog in stressful moments, or as part of the praise
> routine makes sense to me, and I've seen it do amazing things. In my last
> GDB class, I was amazed at how fast most of the dogs bonded to their new
> handlers too. In my neighborhood, finding light poles can be tricky due to
> their placement, which is a perfect time to use food reward and clicker. I
> don't use the clicker. I found it hard to manage clicker and food and get
> the timing right with the arthritis in my hands. And Petunia does not like
> food rewards, so I almost never have treats with me anymore. On the other
> hand, one of my previous guides and I had to cross a very frightening
> crossing when I walked to work every day, during the time I had her. It was
> extremely busy with lots of delivery trucks at the time of morning we were
> crossing there. The island was just a pole in the middle of the
> intersection. Once we were completely across and back on the sidewalk, I
> gave her a kibble every day, and tons of verbal and physical praise. The
> thing to know is that food rewards are not supposed to replace verbal and
> physical praise. They're supposed to augment normal praise, all of it done
> together. At least, that's how GDB does it.
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NAGDU <nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Tracy Carcione via
> NAGDU
> Sent: Monday, May 20, 2019 9:16 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
> Subject: [NAGDU] Food rewards, was questions about American Guide dog
> programs; is: food in training
>
> It's my understanding that GDB does not use the clicker, only treats.
>
> Krokus would like to be a GDB dog.  He does great when he gets a treat,
> and, when the treats stop, the behavior drops off.
>
> I'm kinda bummed about GDB these days.  I had great dogs from there, but
> that was before they started their new methods.  Now I don't feel I can go
> back there, because I don't want to carry around pocketfulls of treats
> every day, and I'm not sure it produces a thoughtful dog. But it's been a
> long time since I've met a GDB dog, so I could be wrong about that.
> Tracy
>
> > Hey Deb,
> > There should be no need to shove food in your pockets every time you
> > go out, and if that is what GDB's approach is, then I'm going to step
> > out on a limb and say "they are doing clicker training wrong."
> > A clicker is a tool, like a prong collar is a tool. If I were to use a
> > prong collar for my dog, the goal would be eventually for my dog not
> > to need it, or to only need it in very specific, very high distraction
> > or other similar environments.
> > I currently am working 2 dogs, both were trained exclusively with the
> > clicker, one is 2, one is 8.5.  Neither of them require that I have
> > food on my body to work. Food is a great motivator and can be very
> > helpful for many of the guide dog breeds such as labs, but its not
> > forever.  Unless there is a very specific situation, such as a
> > national convention where the distraction level is very high, there
> should be no need.
> > I totally see your point though about bringing food everywhere with
> > you, and its a shame that this is becoming necessary for their dogs.
> >
> >
> > Rox'E and the Kitchen Bitches
> > Soleil, Rowan, Phoenix
> > pawpower4me at gmail.com
> >
> >> On May 20, 2019, at 8:43 AM, Debra Chandler via NAGDU
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I'm sure Seeing Eye accepts students from Canada but not sure about
> >> other countries.  I found last night's presentation re GDB very
> >> interesting.  However I don't agree with such a food-driven approach
> >> to training.  I personally am not going to fill my pockets with
> >> treats every time I work my dog and reward my dog with a treat every
> >> time it does something correctly.  The clicker is fine for certain
> >> behaviors like  finding a traffic light pole.  But I'm just not
> >> comfortable with using treats as reinforcers on a regular basis.
> >> Deb and Tally
> >> ---- Tracy Lloyd via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>> I too would be interested to discover which, if any, of the US
> >>> schools will
> >> except applications from other countries, especially european ones?
> >> I'm in the UK, and had thought that only Pilot would take
> >> applications from the UK and Europe.  anyone have any more info?
> >>
> >> Tracy
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Leye-Shprintse Ã–berg via NAGDU
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2019 10:25 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Cc: Leye-Shprintse Ã–berg
> >> Subject: Re: [NAGDU] Questions about American Guide Dog Programs
> >>
> >> ×‘×¡â€™×“
> >>
> >> Danielle,
> >>
> >> Thank you for your answer. Now, I know where Iâ€™ll start my research.
> >>
> >> Sandra,
> >>
> >> Some American guide dog programs accept international students and
> >> some others donâ€™t do it.
> >>
> >> ×œ×©×œ×•× ,
> >> Leye-Shprintse Oeberg
> >> Sweden
> >>
> >>
> >>> 19 maj 2019 kl. 22:37 skrev Sandra Gayer via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org>:
> >>>
> >>> Hello,
> >>> I thought you have to live in America to apply for a dog from an
> >>> American school. Can an applicant be domiciled in another part of
> >>> the world entirely and still apply to an American school? I only ask
> >>> because I couldn't help noticing Sweden at the end of the first
> >>> email in this thread.
> >>>
> >>> Very best wishes,
> >>> Sandra.
> >>>
> >>>> On 5/19/19, Danielle Sykora via NAGDU <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>> The US programs that give ownership upon graduation are Seeing Eye,
> >>>> GDF, and Freedom for sure, and I believe Pilot and GDA as well.
> >>>> Other programs either give ownership after a period of time, or say
> >>>> they give ownership but still have the ability to remove the dog in
> >>>> some situations.
> >>>>
> >>>> In terms of positive training methods, basically everyone is going
> >>>> to tell you the program they went to used positive methods because
> >>>> obviously you can't train a dog without rewarding them for their
> >>>> appropriate behavior.
> >>>> The
> >>>> two programs that come to mind that truly strive to use the most
> >>>> positive methods possible are GDB and GDF.
> >>>> Danielle
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 19, 2019, at 3:02 PM, Leye-Shprintse Ã–berg via NAGDU
> >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ×‘×¡â€™×“
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Iâ€™m researching guide dog programs for my next guide dog. I
> >>>>> wonder which guide dog programs give ownership to the guide dog
> >>>>> handler after graduation and which dittos use positive training
> >>>>> methods with their dogs?
> >>>>> Thank you!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ×œ×©×œ×•× ,
> >>>>> Leye-Shprintse Oeberg
> >>>>> Sweden
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> >>>
> >>> --
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> >>>
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