[NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

Wed Jun 9 23:15:32 UTC 2021

I know this is how I'm supposed to view the slate and stylus, as writing from right to left, not backwards. But that just does not make sense to me. It never has. I learned to slate in maybe 6th grade or so, after having already mastered the Perkins.  As I remember it, my teacher tried to explain it as writing from right to left, but that confused me more, not less. I just knew, instinctually, that that would be writing backwards. Because to me it was. Dots 1, 2, and 3 aren't located on the right side of a braille cell. They're just not. And if I have to write them on the right side of a slate cell, then that's backwards to me. If the left hand dots are now on the right side, they're backwards, and my letters will be too. Learning to slate was tricky for me because I had to translate each letter backwards. N is ed, s is wh, p is th, and so on. It was tedius and tricky, but ultimately doable. I've never been a power slater or anything, but I was fairly efficient at it as a young adult. I even brailled my notes for foreign language classes in high school and college cuz I just didn't like how the non-english languages came out on my braille note takers at the time. And it was my backup for years, riding in my purse with me everywhere, in case of a tech failure, of which I've had many. These days, now that I'm a working mom, I carry as little as possible with me, so don't use my slate nearly as often as I used to, but I have fond memories of it overall, despite my having to learn to reverse all signs.

Anyway, it doesn't matter much I guess. Either way, I learned to use a slate and stylus, backwards and all. However I did it, I got there. I only care about how to explain the slate and stylus to others because I'm now homeschooling two upcoming braille readers, my two preschool children. And I can't figure out how I'm supposed to present the slate and stylus to them. Cuz my oldest thinks a lot like me, and I could see her saying the letters are backwards, no matter how I present it to her. She's only five and is honestly still confused about how the number dots in a braille cell slant sideways on a brailler, so the few times she's played with a slate and stylus, she hasn't seemed any more or less confused by it than anything else braille, but I'm not sure how I can explain it in a way that will make sense, when I myself have only managed to write on a slate by translating every single braille symbol in my head as I write.  So advice welcome. Thanks!

Allison

-----Original Message-----
From: NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Ramona via NFB-Braille-Discussion
Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 2:33 PM
To: Pauline Smith via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Ramona <walhoframona at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus

People have usually heard the word backwards before they ever get their hands on a slate, and I just tell them to erase it from their Braille vocabulary. Reading starts from the left, writing from the wright. Progression is the same through the words, lines, and pages. I often have them start with a row of c's, then A's, B's, then L's, G's, and X's. By that time students have a little control of their styluses. Sometimes a board slate is better if you can find one with children who have trouble lining up the next position down the page. If they get comfortable with removing the paper and putting it back in so they can look at what they are writing, that sometimes also helps them understand the progression emotionally and not have to analize it any more. Sighted people who learn Braille often like to turn a page with the dots down and copy the letters or symbols, and that can also help with the progression. As you would expect each student puts his or her own spin on what is happening, but most get past the awkwardness pretty fast. The more they write, the quicker it happens. Contrary to popular belief, I have found that the younger they begin, the better, as long as pressing through the paper is not too hard for them. 

RamonaOn Jun 9, 2021 2:42 PM, Pauline Smith via NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Good Afternoon,
>
> I am in strong agreement with Debbie and Ramona.  I use a slate 
> regularly.  I use it almost daily since my brailler is not working 
> properly.  Starting in about late elementary school, it was the only 
> permanent way I had to write Braille outside of school.  When I was in 
> school, we could borrow a brailler from the resource room to write out 
> homework and bring it back the following day o Monday if it was a 
> weekend.  The only students who had a brailler at home all of the time 
> were those whose parents or relatives could afford to buy one.  I 
> finally got my brailler from the state rehab system after high school.
>
> Although I try to avoid saying the word "backwards" when teaching 
> slate writing, students usually describe it that way because that's 
> how they see it, since it is the opposite of how one writes or types 
> normally.  Any tips on how to get across the concept so that it is not 
> their automatic response would be helpful.
>
> Pauline
>
> On 6/9/21, Debbie Gabe via NFB-Braille-Discussion 
> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Ramoneon
> > Love your response! I totally agree. No one would ever tell a 
> > sighted person to stop using their pen or pencil - ever!
> > When I taught braille, I would not allow anyone to use the words  
> > opposite, reverse, mirror image or such when discussing the slate 
> > and stylus. I sharpened my own stylus because it made slating 
> > faster, but the dots are smaller. And you had to be careful that the 
> > point was evenly sharpened all around, or it would "stick", so I 
> > only taught that to advanced students. The only time I use a very dull stylus is when I make labels on dymo tape.
> >
> > Thank you for being so eloquent in your discussion.
> > Debbie Gabe
> > NFB of Hawaiihe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: NFB-Braille-Discussion 
> > <nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of kg 6sxy 
> > (kg6sxy) via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 9, 2021 5:42 AM
> > To: NFB Braille Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) <kg6sxy at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> >
> > Hello Ramona,
> >
> > Happy to read your feedback.  I fell in love with braille from the 
> > moment I started learning it last year.  I agree, when you change 
> > the way you think about the leading edge and the numbers of the dots 
> > within a cell, it reduces a lot of the thinking involved which is 
> > really useful.  I only started doing that yesterday and I already 
> > feel more relaxed while writing with a slate and stylus and no more oddly dotted cells that mean nothing at all.
> >
> > I do prefer the backup of having a slate and stylus with me for 
> > times when my iPhone isn't convenient.  I've been lucky enough not 
> > to have a dead battery when I needed it but I also carry a spare 
> > battery pack with me everywhere.  I've tried the braille screen 
> > input but I have yet to be able to enter anything reliably that way; still worth a try now and then.
> >
> > No lack of motivation here, just endurance.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Tony
> >
> >
> >> On Jun 9, 2021, at 10:33 AM, Ramona via NFB-Braille-Discussion 
> >> <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> The word backwards should be obliterated from your vocabulary when 
> >> thinking about or using the Braille slate. You are not doing 
> >> anything backwards. Teachers who use that word should be retrained! 
> >> You start from the beginning of the line and write to the end, just 
> >> as you read. a and b are on the first side of the cell, etc. You 
> >> start at the opposite end of the line from reading and punch the 
> >> dots downward, but it is an obvious progression. Nobody should be 
> >> permitted to reverse symbols indidually ever for any purpose. It adds unnecessary stress and confusion.
> >>
> >> A sharp stylus can make a big difference! If the point becomes 
> >> rough, then find a buffer and smooth it out! The finer the file to 
> >> sharpen, the less rough the point will be. A nail buffer can help 
> >> smooth out the point if needed. I took notes on the slate 
> >> throughout college, and had more complete notes than most sighted 
> >> people. I participated in transcribing a Russian-English dictionary 
> >> on the board slate since most of us did not have Braille writers, and it was before computers.
> >>
> >> I do not use the slate as much as I used to, but would not be 
> >> without it, because of portability. I find it much faster than 
> >> entering data on my i-phone! And it never loses charge or power! 
> >> Yes, you can function without a slate and stylus, but why punish 
> >> blind people by depriving them of a valuable tool. They are not 
> >> less intelligent or less deterous than fifty or more years ago. I 
> >> taught myself to write with the slate and stylus because I was 
> >> bored one summer when I was a kid. The plastic slate is cheap. Any 
> >> blind person can have one free  from the NFB. I can tell you many 
> >> stories about people who have become very proficient with the slate 
> >> and stylus, so find your motivation and just do it! I am glad to 
> >> offer moral support or other suggestions if wanted, but motivation 
> >> is the most essential ingredient! If you think this is one of my soapboxes, you are right!
> >>
> >> RamonaOn Jun 8, 2021 6:47 PM, Ellen Ringlein via 
> >> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Sharpening the stylus is one of those things that not everyone 
> >>> agrees with. I personally would rather have a stylus that already 
> >>> has a good point. It is easy to screw up a stylus with improper 
> >>> sharpening, which then can tare paper and consequently slow you 
> >>> down when Brailling. Not all styluses are equal in terms of how narrowly the point is constructed.
> >>>
> >>> Cordially,
> >>>
> >>> Ellen
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: NFB-Braille-Discussion
> >>> [mailto:nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion-bounces at nfbnet.org>] On Behalf Of 
> >>> kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) via NFB-Braille-Discussion
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 7:15 PM
> >>> To: James K <jakon22 at gmail.com <mailto:jakon22 at gmail.com>>
> >>> Cc: kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) <kg6sxy at gmail.com <mailto:kg6sxy at gmail.com>>; 
> >>> NFB Braille Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>
> >>> Subject: Re: [NFB-Braille-Discussion] Slate and Stylus
> >>>
> >>> Thank you James!
> >>>
> >>> Won't sharpening the stylus point end up making more holes than 
> >>> indentations?
> >>>
> >>> I do like the prospect of having a small slate and stylus in my 
> >>> pocket wherever I go.  You never know when it will come in handy.
> >>>
> >>> Take care,
> >>> Tony
> >>>
> >>>> On Jun 8, 2021, at 7:10 PM, James K <jakon22 at gmail.com 
> >>>> <mailto:jakon22 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> hello, I love the slate and use it daily! the thoughts presented 
> >>>> about using the dot number order of letters and symbols will help 
> >>>> reduce confusion when writing. also, sharpening the stylus point 
> >>>> can make for easier writing and less hand strain. use a whetstone 
> >>>> or fine gri't sandpaper and just rotate the point of the stylus 
> >>>> while sharpening. good luck and you'll find the slate a handy 
> >>>> device. just like the blind person's pencil.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Jun 8, 2021, at 5:48 PM, kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) via 
> >>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello Don,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That is great advice.  I've been thinking in terms of dot 
> >>>>> numbers for a while but not thinking in terms of the closest 
> >>>>> line to the direction I'm working, left to right for reading and right to left for writing.
> >>>>> Looking forward to seeing the difference it makes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you!
> >>>>> Tony
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 8, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Donald Winiecki via 
> >>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion <nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> While others will have valuable things to say about your 
> >>>>>> experiences with neuropathy and how you could cope, I will 
> >>>>>> encourage you to try your best to avoid thinking that the slate 
> >>>>>> and stylus requires you to think the braille is backwards.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Instead, focus on the numbers of the braille dots in a symbol.
> >>>>>> When you're reading, the dots are numbered top to bottom 
> >>>>>> starting with the column closest to the front of the line. When 
> >>>>>> you're using the slate and stylus, the dot numbers are exactly 
> >>>>>> the same, and numbered from top to bottom starting with the 
> >>>>>> column closest to the front of the line. In doing so you're 
> >>>>>> keeping your focus on the dot numbers and your bearing to the 
> >>>>>> front of the line. It's only a shift in where the front of the line is placed!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I can say from experience that once you get used to thinking in 
> >>>>>> terms of dot numbers and the front of the line, it gets much 
> >>>>>> easier to develop proficiency with the slate and stylus.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _don [image: ]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 4:21 PM kg 6sxy (kg6sxy) via 
> >>>>>>> NFB-Braille-Discussion < nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org 
> >>>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> <mailto:nfb-braille-discussion at nfbnet.org>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I just joined this list today and didn't a little looking 
> >>>>>>> through the archives but didn't see anything in the past few 
> >>>>>>> months about slate and stylus use.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Does anyone still use a slate and stylus that has found a 
> >>>>>>> comfortable stylus to use with arthritis or neuropathy?  I'm 
> >>>>>>> working on getting my brain to properly flip braille for a 
> >>>>>>> slate but I find that the couple of styluses I have are hard 
> >>>>>>> to use after a line or two.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Take care,
> >>>>>>> Tony
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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