[nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)

Joshua Lester jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Wed Apr 13 23:02:48 UTC 2011


That's another great idea!
Also, ship the illegals back!
I wouldn't be surprised, if some of the spammers are illegal imigrants.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/13/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Actually what I favor is a different approach:  deny foreign aid to
> countries that harbor spammers!
>
> Mike Freeman
> sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2011, at 14:16, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Mr. Freeman, let's try to invent a new alternative.
>> I'm not a computer genius, but if someone can do this, I'd appreciate it.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/13/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
>>> Guys and gals:
>>>
>>> Let's get real here.  John Heim is absolutely correct:  his boss may be a
>>> decent person.  But she doesn't care a farthing how CAPTCHAs affect the
>>> blind.  There aren't enough of us to truly affect offenders' bottom
>>> lines.
>>> All webmasters want is to stop spam (something all of us can sympathize
>>> with
>>> unless we are the spammers!).  If a few thousand people are
>>> inconvenienced
>>> or shut out of sites, so what?  The Federal agency for which I work gets
>>> something like fifty thousand spam emails (yes, you heard right) each
>>> *week*
>>> and this wastes a heck of a lot of resources and bandwidth.  I'd guess
>>> its
>>> websites do also.
>>>
>>> Fulminating and venting one's spleen in irrational outbursts avails us
>>> nothing.  Neither does writing to webmasters; we'd never be able to cover
>>> them all.  Even if we can get courts to rule that the ADA applies, I'd
>>> bet
>>> good money that Joshua's nemesis site would fall under the religious
>>> exceptions to ADA requirements.
>>>
>>> I sympathize with everyone's indignation; I am stymied by CAPTCHA's also.
>>> But I'm realistic enough to realize that it's an ongoing race between
>>> spammers/hackers and web developers.  CAPTCHAs certainly aren't the
>>> ultimate
>>> answer but, I submit, any solution that would allow screen-readers access
>>> will also allow spammers/hackers access.  And yes, I've used Delta
>>> Airlines
>>> wonderful alternative to the CAPTCHA available on their flights where one
>>> answers a math question.  But does this not discriminate against the
>>> learning-disabled?  And I could envision a spammer employing a Cray or
>>> other
>>> super-machine to simply sort through possible answers and brute-force its
>>> way to the solution.
>>>
>>> My psychological defense is to figure that any website that leaves me out
>>> I
>>> don't need either.
>>>
>>> I can see only two solutions:  build up a billion-dollar legal fund to
>>> sue
>>> every web developer or website owner (and we must figure on losing at
>>> least
>>> half the suits) or getting down to brass tacks and inventing and
>>> patenting a
>>> CAPTCHA alternative that appears convincing enough to be adopted by a
>>> majority of web developers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike Freeman
>>> sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 13, 2011, at 9:26, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also agree.
>>>> So, what's the holdup?
>>>> Let's get the sighted people on this list to visit every site, (I've
>>>> mentioned the sites on the Music Talk list,) and contact the
>>>> Webmasters.
>>>> Some of us can't contact them, because of the captcha.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 4/13/11, Gloria Whipple <ladygloria at webband.com> wrote:
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with you all the way!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gloria Whipple
>>>>> Corresponding Secretary
>>>>> Inland Empire chapter
>>>>> nfb of WA
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>> On
>>>>> Behalf Of Peter Donahue
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 09:05
>>>>> To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>   Audio captchas are of no use to the deaf-blind . For God sakes if we
>>>>> can
>>>>>
>>>>> develop the technology that allowed us to put a blind guy behind the
>>>>> wheel
>>>>> of an automobile and drive it independently we should be able to find a
>>>>> way
>>>>> to allow captchas to be recognized by screen readers while protecting
>>>>> Web
>>>>> sites and such from the bad guys. The belief that the technology to do
>>>>> this
>>>>> is not there doesn't wash with me.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:38 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John, what's really bad, is if there are multiple blind people in a
>>>>> church denomination, and their site's contact form, or church locater,
>>>>> are inaccessible.
>>>>> My organization's Website is like that.
>>>>> They have an audio file that's supposed to play the captcha, but it
>>>>> won't
>>>>> play.
>>>>> I'll post the Website here.
>>>>> www.upci.org
>>>>> I've contacted their IT department, but they have done nothing about
>>>>> this.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4/13/11, John Heim <john at johnheim.net> wrote:
>>>>>> A few months ago, the Department of Justice said that the ADA applies
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> web
>>>>>> sites. This is a big deal. Since the Department of Justice is
>>>>>> responsible
>>>>>> for enforcing laws like the ADA, if the Department of Justice says the
>>>>>> ADA
>>>>>> applies to web sites, then it does.  A business would have to go to
>>>>>> court
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> show that the DOJ overstepped its bounds in making that determination.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> the burden of proof would be on them. Well, anyway, the point is that
>>>>>> CAPTCHAs are now illegal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> IMO, this is one of the toughest issues we face. My own boss came to
>>>>>> me
>>>>>> yesterday wanting to put a captcha on our web site. I had to talk
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> long to get her to not do it. It was a really tough sell and I only
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> her
>>>>>> to agree on a provisional basis. If an alternate solution I came up
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> doesn't work, she will probably insist on using the captcha. Her point
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> that the page we want to protect simply isn't visited very often by
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> people. Its not worth the trouble to make it accessible.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've pointed out that its a matter of principle. I've even mentioned
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> bitter thing it would be for me to install captcha software. I've
>>>>>> pointed
>>>>>> out our legal responsibilities. All this makes little to no
>>>>>> difference.
>>>>>> All
>>>>>> that really matters is that captchas work. Honestly, I was sitting
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> thinking of trying to write software to break captchas and sending it
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> every spammer I can find.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, my boss is not a bad person by any means. She is very open
>>>>>> minded. I just think that if you're not blind, you don't see what the
>>>>>> problem is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> To: <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:25 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nfb-talk] Captcha, (I've had enough!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
>>>>>>> I've posted this on the Faith Talk list, and the Music list, but I'm
>>>>>>> not having any success.
>>>>>>> I've just thought of a question.
>>>>>>> I'd like everyone's feedback.
>>>>>>> How can we better influence the Webmasters of their sites, to make
>>>>>>> more accessible contact forms?
>>>>>>> How can they make them, where they can differentiate, between Jaws,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> Robot?
>>>>>>> I want them to make the captcha, where Jaws can catch it, and read it
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>> What can we do?
>>>>>>> Thanks for your ideas.
>>>>>>> This is for all Websites.
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> t
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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