[Nfbc-info] Can someone explain

Mon Jun 15 09:46:04 UTC 2009

    Hi chuck what bothers me and I haven't figured it out yet though is most 
of the books articles I read show the disabled have a 70% unemployment rate 
but the disability site I gave the link for says that figure is half or less 
than half. If correct this would suggest NFB and other agencies are either 
uninformed about people with disabilities or they are outright lying about 
the jobless rate of blind consumers between the ages of 18 and 65.
I have a web resource on the mental impairment terminology which I will 
check out and get back in a couple days when I have a chance to finish two 
school projects I'm in the least three weeks of this term and because we 
want to go to Sacramento this week or next that means I need to finish most 
or all of the school work or carry the laptop.  I don't want to do the 
papers on the laptop although I could do discussion forums using it.
Our instructor doesn't like us to even use third person language because he 
says it compartmentalizes people. Better to say a person who happens to be 
blind than "the blind"
etc.
Mike
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain


>I am bothered by the term "mentally impaired." There is a big difference 
>between those who are mentally ill or who have a developmental disability 
>such as a learning disability or mental retardation. There is a big 
>difference and the term "mentally impaired" is not a widely standardized 
>term so it is basically meaningless as its interpretation is dubious.
> Chuck
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Peterson" <its_mike at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 5:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>
>
>>    Hi Jonathan. As I mentioned previously the 90% versus 76% isn't the 
>> most troubling statistic. The site that claims unemployment amongst the 
>> blind and disabled is 40% or less bothers me much more. However if the 
>> definition of mental illness is to broad and encompassing wouldn't that 
>> actually cause the unemployment rate to be lower?  For example if we said 
>> everyone including those wearing contact lenses and those who have had 
>> corrective lazer surgery can count as blind wouldn't that pull our 
>> statistic down.  In one report Fred Schroder noted the New Mexico 
>> commission did prior to his comissionership count blind people in such a 
>> way and some of his case closures included people like an airline pilot.
>> The not really blind  crowd artificially inflated case closures.
>> If you included everyone who visited a psychologist as "Mentally 
>> impaired" that would schew those figures similarly.
>> One counselor noted in our discussion statistics aren't to important but 
>> I replied as a consumer and an advocate they are. A legislature is more 
>> likely to vote for legislation that will help curve 76 per cent or 90 
>> percent unemployment than he /she will if the disability group has a 30 
>> or 40 per cent rate.
>> Neither rate is acceptible but the lower one is more socially tollerable.
>> Mike
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Jonathan Lyens" <jonathan at lyens.com>
>> To: "NFB of California List" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 12:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>
>>
>>> Hi Mike,
>>>
>>> I believe the difference you find is that "mental impairment" is a very
>>> large classification. I know you noted that there are various causes of
>>> blindness. However, all of these causes lead to the different
>>> progressions of the same end result. However, "mental impairments" are
>>> numerous. Additionally, the impairments do not all have the same causes
>>> nor the same symptoms. They are not all varying degrees along the same
>>> spectrum. Thus, I think lumping them all together, particularly for this
>>> exercise, does not parse out your data enough in order to draw any
>>> meaningful conclusions. If you wish to draw a meaningful conclusion
>>> about employment of people with disabilities, you need to separate out
>>> all of the disabilities. Even in the category of mental impairment for
>>> example, Schizophrenia is much different than say a Learning Disability.
>>> Both of these disabilities have different causes and symptoms, and would
>>> most definitely have much different impacts on one's ability to gain
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> Best-
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> Jonathan T. Lyens MPA
>>> Email: jonathan at lyens.com
>>> Fax: (321) 256-8896
>>> Skype: jlyens
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Michael Peterson
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 7:16 AM
>>> To: NFB of California List
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>
>>>
>>>    Hi Angela. Just as blindness encompasses a variety of conditions
>>> mental
>>> impairment encompasses everyone from a slow learner to some one with a
>>> severe mental impairment.
>>> My problem with this site isn't their definition of mental impairment
>>> That
>>> 90% comes from a different article.
>>> My problem is the site says unemployment statistics are totally schewed
>>> and
>>> that the unemployment rate for those with disabilities though three or
>>> four
>>> times higher than the main stream and are actually   only 30per cent or
>>> 40
>>> per cent.
>>> My request for clarification regarding the mental impairment statistic
>>> ismade because
>>> those who compile and use the statistic that states the blind are the
>>> highest underemployed group must have access to the other statistics
>>> including the statistics for mental impairment otherwise they wouldn't
>>> make
>>> the claim that the blind are the highest 70% to 76% unemployed.
>>> They didn't just dream up that statistic they had to be familiar with
>>> the
>>> disabilities literature to make the claim.
>>>
>>> The site I was looking at suggests those figures are vastly inflated by
>>> the
>>> blind and other disability groups maybe unintentionally.
>>> I don't agree with this site's challenge but I'm looking for information
>>>
>>> that will refute it.
>>> Just by knowing blind persons and who works and who doesn't I see the
>>> probability of our statistic being right and one thing not taken in to
>>> account those who are not in the work force for x number of months or
>>> years
>>> drop of the "unemployment roles although they still are unemployed. The
>>> author of the site says college students aren't considered as unemployed
>>> if
>>> they are full time but in fact a college student recently laid off or
>>> fired
>>> who decides to go back to school could be a part of the unemployment
>>> rate
>>> and might even be drawing unemployment.
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Angela fowler" <fowlers at syix.com>
>>> To: "'NFB of California List'" <nfbc-info at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 4:50 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>
>>>
>>>> Define "mental impairment."
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>> [mailto:nfbc-info-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of Michael Peterson
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 8:27 PM
>>>> To: NFB of California List
>>>> Subject: [Nfbc-info] Can someone explain
>>>>
>>>> Hi all.  This week my 680 seminar in rehabilitation class is having a
>>>> discussion on mental impairment.
>>>> During this discussion the statistics cited suggest the unemployment
>>> rate
>>>> for people with a mental impairment is about 90 per cent.
>>>> We on a regular basis say that the blind are the highest unemployed
>>>> disability group with about 76 to 80 per cent unemployment.
>>>> Which is correct and how can I verify the figures are misused if the
>>>> mentally impaired aren't the highest unemployed population?
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Mike
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Nfbc-info:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/fowlers%40syi
>>> x.co
>>>> m
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> Nfbc-info:
>>>>
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/its_mike%40sb
>>> cglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Nfbc-info:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/jonathan%40ly
>>> ens.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> Nfbc-info:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/its_mike%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Nfbc-info mailing list
>> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> Nfbc-info:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Nfbc-info mailing list
> Nfbc-info at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> Nfbc-info:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbc-info_nfbnet.org/its_mike%40sbcglobal.net