[nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against Disabled

Fri Mar 11 22:52:33 UTC 2016

Actually, a monitor is necessary to do accessibility testing at least 
with functional accessibility testing on software and web pages.  Part 
of what that kind of testing discovers are the contrasts and 
similarities in performance in the accessibility context.  That is, does 
the web page perform as expected with a screen reader and can a screen 
reader user access expected controls and run those controls and have the 
same results with the web page or software people without screen readers 
have.  The Navy used that kind of testing in preparation for the d.o.d. 
components accessibility survey ordered by President Obama in 2012. 
Admittedly this survey did not touch technical training materials 
expected to be used by software developers otherwise the results  would 
have been quite different.  As a result of the limited use of functional 
web accessibility testing the Navy got the highest scores on that 
survey.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016, John G Heim via nfbcs wrote:

> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 10:37:21
> From: John G Heim via nfbcs <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against Disabled
> 
> But employers pick up the tab for employees equipment all the time. Imagine a 
> sighted person getting hired at a company that made accessibility tools. 
> Everybody else who works at the company is blind. They sit him down in front 
> of a computer with no monitor, just a headset. He says, "I'm going to need a 
> monitor." And the boss says, "Are you kidding? You expect me to go out and 
> spend my own money on some stupid visual device just for you?"
>
>
>
>
> On 03/11/2016 07:02 AM, Gary Wunder via nfbcs wrote:
>> I have a reasonable understanding of the ADA when it comes to how 
>> reasonable
>> accommodation is interpreted, but I would argue for any client who pressed
>> the state agency to provide the initial equipment for a job. It is one 
>> thing
>> to demonstrate to an employer that I have worth and then expect him to pick
>> up the same cost that he does for others, but I think it is a very 
>> different
>> thing for an employer who doesn't know me or much of anything about blind
>> people to be told that I will need screen reading software, a notetaker, 
>> and
>> perhaps a scanner and some additional software. For the agency to drop the
>> ball after carrying it 90% of the way seems foolish to me.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Steve Jacobson
>> via nfbcs
>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 4:21 PM
>> To: 'NFB in Computer Science Mailing List'
>> Cc: Steve Jacobson; 'Tracy Carcione'
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>> Disabled
>> 
>> John,
>> 
>> I think you raise some interesting points.  When I started working some
>> forty years ago, it was common thought that the agency for the blind
>> provided the equipment for a job.  Often this was a one-time thing, and of
>> course that has changed.  However, particularly with the coming of ADA, but
>> even before that, it became the employer's responsibility to provide needed
>> equipment as a reasonable accommodation.  Whether it should be considered 
>> or
>> not, that makes us more expensive to hire for the same return, unless, as
>> you say, we can convince an employer that we will produce more.  However, I
>> am somewhat uneasy with the concept that we produce more to justify our
>> extra equipment because it may not be that easy to achieve.  A lot of our
>> reasonable accommodation needs are really pretty small for a large company,
>> but they can be an "Undo burden" on a small company which is where many 
>> jobs
>> are.  Also, many large companies budget at a department level and one's
>> equipment may need to be paid for by the department that does the hiring. 
>> A
>> small expense for a large company might be much more substantial at the
>> department level.  come
>> 
>> I don't claim to have answers, but I believe this problem needs to be
>> considered.  Still, can one really claim discrimination if someone else is
>> hired who does not have reasonable accommodation needs?  I know that some
>> job applicants are told to iron out their reasonable accommodation needs
>> right away, and there is a case to be made for that.  One needs to know if
>> they can do the job for one thing.  But it really exposes one's hand, so to
>> speak, very early in the process.  Another employee who does not require 
>> any
>> reasonable accommodations but who had a family situation that causes them 
>> to
>> require time off, for example, won't reveal any of this until they have 
>> been
>> hired.  We need to look for answers to some of this as blind people because
>> we are the ones most effected.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Steve Jacobson
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim via
>> nfbcs
>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:51 AM
>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>; Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>> Disabled
>> 
>> It'd be funny if it wasn't about putting bread on the table.
>> Another thing in the comments that I think is of interest is that some
>> people blasted the research study saying it was stupid to disclose that you
>> are disabled in the cover letter. But both of our examples show how futile
>> it is to not disclose it.  You're going to end up at a lot of interviews
>> where you have absolutely no chance at the job. There is always some chance
>> you'll wow the interviewer into giving you a chance, I suppose. Is it worth
>> it? Just my opinion but I don't think so. I think you are better off 
>> weeding
>> those people out in the first place.
>> 
>> The last time I was applying for jobs, I made myself out to be Super Blind
>> Guy in my cover letter. Of course, I didn't actually use that term in my
>> cover letter but I made a point of emphasizing the things I could do. I 
>> have
>> competed in triathlonns, landscaped the front of my house, done a lot of
>> woodworking. For what it's worth, it seemed to work.
>> 
>> You know about Super Blind Guy, right? He and his faithful guide dog
>> companion  go around righting wrongs with his razor sharp mind, super
>> hearing, echo location, and super sensitive touch. "Ah ha!" says Super 
>> Blind
>> Guy, "I knew the bill was counterfeit because it was dated 1936 and Andrew
>> Jackson didn't appear on the twenty until 1938."
>> On 03/10/2016 10:10 AM, Tracy Carcione via nfbcs wrote:
>>> I once interviewed for a job, taking a bus, a train, and walking
>>> several blocks in Manhattan, only to find the interviewer could not be
>>> convinced I wouldn't need someone to lead me to the bathroom.  Grrrr.
>>> Tracy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G Heim
>>> via nfbcs
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:03 AM
>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>> Cc: John G Heim
>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>>> Disabled
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/upshot/fake-cover-letters-expose-discri
>>> mination-against-disabled.html
>>> 
>>> I think I have talked on this list about wanting to commission a study
>>> similar to the one mentioned in this article except with a blind
>>> applicant applying for IT jobs. The study has people with spinal
>>> injuries and Asperger's Syndrome applying for accounting jobs. They
>>> found disabled applicants were 26% less likely to get a call back. Of
>>> particular interest are some of the comments.
>>> 
>>> "Given two candidates of roughly equal qualifications the rational
>> decision
>>> would be to hire the one without disabilities. It's going to be less
>>> expensive, on average . [...] So statistically, a disabled job
>>> applicant would need to be sufficiently better qualified for the job
>>> to overcome the disability to be the 'correct' choice."
>>> 
>>> Long time readers of this list will know I've speculated about this
>>> effect for years. My guess is that this factor is much greater for
>>> blind
>> applicants
>>> than it is for the types of disabilities in the study. A blind person
>> does,
>>> in fact, have greater challenges to over come. But I suspect that even
>> worse
>>> is the lack of understanding about just how much a blind technologist
>>> can do. A perspective employer once flatly refused to interview me
>>> when she
>> saw
>>> that I was blind. She essentially accused me of faking my resume and
>> simply
>>> would not believe a blind person could use a computer.
>>> 
>>> 
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>> --
>> --
>> John G. Heim; jheim at math.wisc.edu; sip://jheim@sip.linphone.org
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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