[nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against Disabled

[John G. Heim]

Alright, you've convinced me.  It occurs to me that my own logic works 
against me. If you are 26% (at least) less likely to get an interview if 
you disclose you are blind, that means that 26% of the time you never 
get the opportunity to show that you can do the job. Some percentage of 
that 26% are going to be hard headed about it. It will be a waste of 
time talking to them unless you want to file an EEOC complaint. But you 
might be able to educate somepart of that 26% too.

I suspect it would be a waste of time filing an EEOC complaint if all 
they did was focus on how you are going to get to the bathroom. They 
will just deny it and they would probably quite honestly feel that you 
mischaracterized the interview.  When I was flatly refused an interviewI 
should have reported that. At the time, I didn't know any better.

In my position as President of IAVIT, I've discussed this issue with 
people who hire. Who knows what they really think, right? But some said 
to me that they would feel a candidate was pulling a fast one if they 
didn't disclose. People are so afraid of lawsuits that they think they 
should be given a warning so they can have their lawyer tell them what 
to ask and what not to ask before interviewing a blind person. But I 
suspect that the people who have expressed this sentiment are part of 
the 26% that you can just write off as a waste of time.







On 03/11/2016 09:22 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
> The goal when you're applying for a job is to get to that next step in 
> the process. This is true whether you're blind or sighted. Your resume 
> is meant to get you to a screening interview with HR. Your goal in the 
> screening interview is to get to talk to the hiring manager and so on.
>
> Obviously, you'll run into those prejudiced managers where it's a 
> waste of time and if you had disclosed your blindness, you might have 
> saved yourself some time and aggravation, but as others have said, 
> those are the cases where you should look into filing a complaint.
>
> Although those narrow minded managers exist, there are a lot more 
> managers out there who just don't know. They see a bunch of candidates 
> who are all qualified and they start widdling down that list to a 
> manageable number. All things being equal between a few candidates, 
> except for blindness, then they may move that blind candidate down a 
> few places on the list just out of ignorance. If one of those 
> candidates higher on the list hits a home run in the interview then 
> the blind candidate may never get to talk to the hiring manager and 
> the company still got a qualified candidate.
>
> I want to talk to those managers. I'm confident that if I'm in a face 
> to face interview, I'm going to impress them with what I've 
> accomplished, build a rapport with them and leave that interview 
> knowing that they know they're going to get a rock star if they hire 
> me. I've participated in a lot of interviews, both as a candidate and 
> as a hiring manager, and I know I interview well, and I'm confident 
> that all things being equal, my communication skills and leadership 
> style are going to more than make up for any perceived disadvantage I 
> might have as a blind candidate.
>
> As I said before, I don't go out of my way to disclose my blindness, 
> but as appropriate I do mention my blindness in my interests and job 
> experience. I also don't bring up my blindness in the interview, but I 
> do deal with it head on if it does come up.
>
> On 11/03/16 09:15, John G Heim via nfbcs wrote:
>> I don't know  ... In the example I gave, I stood up when my name was
>> called, the woman saw that I had a guide dog and said she didn't want to
>> interview me. I don't care how good you are at interviewing, you're not
>> going to over come that. Tracy's story is similar. I've been in
>> interviews like that too. When all they want to know is how you are
>> going to get to the bathroom, no amount of interviewing skill is going
>> to talk them out of it. These things are called prejudices  for a
>> reason. They've made up their mind ahead of time.
>>
>> Take those comments from the woman who said it only makes sense to hire
>> the non-disabled person since they'll be cheaper. Do you think you could
>> talk her out of that during an interview? I really doubt it. People do
>> tend to hire the candidate they hit it off with rather than the most
>> qualified. But I think the vast majority of people like the woman who
>> made that comment would say, "Wow, that blind guy was really great. Too
>> bad we can't hire him."
>>
>> On 03/10/2016 10:14 PM, Christopher Chaltain via nfbcs wrote:
>>> I've heard arguments on both sides of the debate as to whether to
>>> disclose or not disclose. For me, I think I do well at face to face
>>> interviews, so my whole goal during the job search is to get that face
>>> to face interview. That being said, I don't hide the fact that I'm
>>> blind on my resume, in my job applications or on my social networking
>>> sites. I also don't volunteer that information if it comes up during a
>>> screening interview over the phone, but I'm prepared to address it and
>>> talk about my accommodations if it does come up.
>>>
>>> As far as accommodations go, I'm at a point in my life where I don't
>>> have a problem purchasing my own accommodations. If laying out a few
>>> thousand dollars is the difference  between being employed or
>>> unemployed then I consider that money well spent. I understand not
>>> everyone is in my financial situation, so I'm not saying this applies
>>> to everyone.
>>>
>>> I haven't had to put this to the test yet. My previous job was at a
>>> company that used Linux, so I was able to do my job using Ubuntu, Orca
>>> and other free access tools. My current job is with the state
>>> government, so I had no qualms expecting them to provide me a screen
>>> reader.
>>>
>>> On 10/03/16 16:21, Steve Jacobson via nfbcs wrote:
>>>> John,
>>>>
>>>> I think you raise some interesting points.  When I started working 
>>>> some
>>>> forty years ago, it was common thought that the agency for the blind
>>>> provided the equipment for a job.  Often this was a one-time thing,
>>>> and of
>>>> course that has changed.  However, particularly with the coming of
>>>> ADA, but
>>>> even before that, it became the employer's responsibility to provide
>>>> needed
>>>> equipment as a reasonable accommodation.  Whether it should be
>>>> considered or
>>>> not, that makes us more expensive to hire for the same return,
>>>> unless, as
>>>> you say, we can convince an employer that we will produce more.
>>>> However, I
>>>> am somewhat uneasy with the concept that we produce more to justify 
>>>> our
>>>> extra equipment because it may not be that easy to achieve. A lot of
>>>> our
>>>> reasonable accommodation needs are really pretty small for a large
>>>> company,
>>>> but they can be an "Undo burden" on a small company which is where
>>>> many jobs
>>>> are.  Also, many large companies budget at a department level and 
>>>> one's
>>>> equipment may need to be paid for by the department that does the
>>>> hiring.  A
>>>> small expense for a large company might be much more substantial at 
>>>> the
>>>> department level.  come
>>>>
>>>> I don't claim to have answers, but I believe this problem needs to be
>>>> considered.  Still, can one really claim discrimination if someone
>>>> else is
>>>> hired who does not have reasonable accommodation needs?  I know that
>>>> some
>>>> job applicants are told to iron out their reasonable accommodation 
>>>> needs
>>>> right away, and there is a case to be made for that.  One needs to
>>>> know if
>>>> they can do the job for one thing.  But it really exposes one's hand,
>>>> so to
>>>> speak, very early in the process.  Another employee who does not
>>>> require any
>>>> reasonable accommodations but who had a family situation that causes
>>>> them to
>>>> require time off, for example, won't reveal any of this until they
>>>> have been
>>>> hired.  We need to look for answers to some of this as blind people
>>>> because
>>>> we are the ones most effected.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G
>>>> Heim via
>>>> nfbcs
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 10:51 AM
>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List <nfbcs at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: John G Heim <jheim at math.wisc.edu>; Tracy Carcione
>>>> <carcione at access.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>>>> Disabled
>>>>
>>>> It'd be funny if it wasn't about putting bread on the table.
>>>> Another thing in the comments that I think is of interest is that some
>>>> people blasted the research study saying it was stupid to disclose 
>>>> that
>>>> you are disabled in the cover letter. But both of our examples show 
>>>> how
>>>> futile it is to not disclose it.  You're going to end up at a lot of
>>>> interviews where you have absolutely no chance at the job. There is
>>>> always some chance you'll wow the interviewer into giving you a 
>>>> chance,
>>>> I suppose. Is it worth it? Just my opinion but I don't think so. I 
>>>> think
>>>> you are better off weeding those people out in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> The last time I was applying for jobs, I made myself out to be Super
>>>> Blind Guy in my cover letter. Of course, I didn't actually use that 
>>>> term
>>>> in my cover letter but I made a point of emphasizing the things I 
>>>> could
>>>> do. I have competed in triathlonns, landscaped the front of my house,
>>>> done a lot of woodworking. For what it's worth, it seemed to work.
>>>>
>>>> You know about Super Blind Guy, right? He and his faithful guide dog
>>>> companion  go around righting wrongs with his razor sharp mind, super
>>>> hearing, echo location, and super sensitive touch. "Ah ha!" says Super
>>>> Blind Guy, "I knew the bill was counterfeit because it was dated 1936
>>>> and Andrew Jackson didn't appear on the twenty until 1938."
>>>> On 03/10/2016 10:10 AM, Tracy Carcione via nfbcs wrote:
>>>>> I once interviewed for a job, taking a bus, a train, and walking
>>>>> several
>>>>> blocks in Manhattan, only to find the interviewer could not be
>>>>> convinced I
>>>>> wouldn't need someone to lead me to the bathroom.  Grrrr.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nfbcs [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of John G
>>>>> Heim via
>>>>> nfbcs
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2016 11:03 AM
>>>>> To: NFB in Computer Science Mailing List
>>>>> Cc: John G Heim
>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] Fake Cover Letters Expose Discrimination Against
>>>>> Disabled
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/upshot/fake-cover-letters-expose-discri 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> mination-against-disabled.html
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I have talked on this list about wanting to commission a 
>>>>> study
>>>>> similar to the one mentioned in this article except with a blind
>>>>> applicant
>>>>> applying for IT jobs. The study has people with spinal injuries and
>>>>> Asperger's Syndrome applying for accounting jobs. They found disabled
>>>>> applicants were 26% less likely to get a call back. Of particular
>>>>> interest
>>>>> are some of the comments.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Given two candidates of roughly equal qualifications the rational
>>>> decision
>>>>> would be to hire the one without disabilities. It's going to be less
>>>>> expensive, on average . [...] So statistically, a disabled job
>>>>> applicant
>>>>> would need to be sufficiently better qualified for the job to
>>>>> overcome the
>>>>> disability to be the 'correct' choice."
>>>>>
>>>>> Long time readers of this list will know I've speculated about this
>>>>> effect
>>>>> for years. My guess is that this factor is much greater for blind
>>>> applicants
>>>>> than it is for the types of disabilities in the study. A blind person
>>>> does,
>>>>> in fact, have greater challenges to over come. But I suspect that 
>>>>> even
>>>> worse
>>>>> is the lack of understanding about just how much a blind
>>>>> technologist can
>>>>> do. A perspective employer once flatly refused to interview me 
>>>>> when she
>>>> saw
>>>>> that I was blind. She essentially accused me of faking my resume and
>>>> simply
>>>>> would not believe a blind person could use a computer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nfbcs:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/jheim%40math.wisc.edu 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>