[Nfbmo] {Spam?} RE: {Disarmed} Reposting a Facebook post that my wife made.

Gary Wunder gwunder at earthlink.net
Mon Mar 13 19:33:42 UTC 2017 

It is a debate that's been going on for a long time, and the real question
is what turns out to be reasonable. That is the fly in the ointment. In my
view we need to press for Jenny to have access to PowerPoint because the
issue goes far beyond class. It cuts to the whole issue of whether she will
be able to stand before groups and make presentations in the same way that
other people do. At some point I don't want Jenny to be the talking head
while other people present what are thought of as visually rich
presentations. This means that I will beat on Microsoft to make PowerPoint
accessible, beat on JAWS to make PowerPoint efficiently usable, beat on RSP
to make sure Jenny gets the training, and maybe even push hard on Jenny
herself if she demonstrates laziness and won't take advantage when all of
that is available to her. In any event, that's why I'm on the way out. 

Love to both of you. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Nfbmo [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Randy Carmack via
Nfbmo
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 3:11 PM
To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
Cc: Randy Carmack
Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] {Disarmed} Reposting a Facebook post that my wife made.

Yes, we do disagree.  I feel that the sighted world should have to adjust
and make reasonable accommodations for the disabled.  My guess is that this
is a debate that has been going on for decades inside our organization.

Thanks,
Randy Carmack

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Jenny Carmack via Nfbmo <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi Gary,
>
> Yes the instructor knows that I am blind.  I have talked with her 
> several times throughout the semester.  For this particular assignment  
> I was not aware that she specifically wanted it to becompleted in
> power point.  I take partial responsibility in my not knowing.   While
> it says no where in the instructions for completing the assignment 
> which format it was to be done in, she did provide an example for us 
> to look at online.  I did not pay attention to the file extention and 
> therefore did not realize I was looking at a power point example.  The 
> assignment was to create a fact sheet about an assigned medical 
> condition and present your information to the class.  I wrote this in 
> a word document similar to how you would get a fact sheet from your 
> doctor about a medical condition.  I was ready to present my 
> information.  However, when it came time to present I realized that 
> everyone else was using power point to present their information to 
> the class. (only half of the class presented that day)  I talked to 
> the instructor that day after class and it came to that she really 
> wanted me to use power point and include images or photos.  I told her 
> I would try, but that I had not done this before with a screen reader 
> and did not know how it would work.  At that time I did not know if I 
> could use power point with JAWS.  I have since learned (hoping that I 
> have learned correctly) that I can use JAWS to enter text into the 
> power point slides, but that to insert images I need the assistance of 
> someone with sight.  To date I have not learned my way around power 
> point yet.  My daughter helped me to put my information into power 
> point slides and I am ready to present in class tomorrow.  Randy and I 
> have a different perspective on this situation, he believes that a 
> blind person should not be expected to do visual presentations and 
> that I should not be required to do this for an assignment and that 
> the word document I have created should be good enough.  I feel that 
> in a perfect world that would be great, but that is just not how life 
> works.  I feel that being a blind person in a sighted world I have to 
> adjust and accommodate to fit in even if that means at time I have to 
> ask for assistance to complete things.
>
> Jenny
>
> On 3/7/17, Gary Wunder via Nfbmo <nfbmo at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Yes, the teacher evidences a keen unawareness when it comes to the 
> > needs
> of
> > special education students. Was this shown on the syllabus? Is the 
> > professor aware that Jenny is blind?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nfbmo [mailto:nfbmo-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
> > Carmack via Nfbmo
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 6:09 PM
> > To: NFB of Missouri Mailing List
> > Cc: Randy Carmack
> > Subject: Re: [Nfbmo] {Disarmed} Reposting a Facebook post that my 
> > wife made.
> >
> > Gary,
> >
> > Jenny was given an assignment to do.  I am not sure how it happened 
> > but Jenny was never told by the professor or in any of the 
> > instructions that she wanted it done in a power point, there was 
> > supposedly some visual example that the class was supposed to refer 
> > to.  So when the assignment was due everyone presented their project 
> > in power point except Jenny who had completed the assignment and 
> > presented it in a word document.
> > Apparently the word document was not good enough for this instructor 
> > and she had Jenny redo the project and place it in a power point 
> > document and include pictures.  This is a masters level Special 
> > Education class not a technology or a M.S. Office class.
> >
> > Please correct me if I am wrong but this seemed completely 
> > unreasonable
> to
> > me, especially seeing that this professor is tasked with teaching 
> > Special Education teachers.
> >
> > Thanks for your response,
> > Randy Carmack
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Gary Wunder via Nfbmo 
> > <nfbmo at nfbnet.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I come late to this discussion, so there may be comments that I 
> >> have missed along the way. I think there is some truth in the fact 
> >> that a picture is worth a thousand words. There are things that can 
> >> be understood visually and tactiley that take forever to explain. 
> >> Imagine trying to explain a seesaw and then feeling one. Would the 
> >> explanation of a jungle gym ever excite the kind of memories and 
> >> experiences that being on one would? Graphs have a wonderful way of 
> >> making things clear that numbers simply obscure. So, if you can't 
> >> see a thing, can we enlarge it so you can, or can we put it under 
> >> your fingers so that you can take advantage of the sense that is most
equivalent to sight?
> >> These are the things I worked to make happen when I was in college, 
> >> but the problem is making them happen in real time. I had to ask 
> >> somebody to help me after the class by using a raised line drawing 
> >> board to convey what was on the chalkboard. If there were words in 
> >> the presentation that I knew how to pronounce but not how to spell, 
> >> I had to
> > ask someone.
> >>
> >> Now I may or may not be hitting on the points that are bothering you.
> >> When you talk about learning visually, you may be talking about the 
> >> inaccessibility of websites or the places to which they send you. I 
> >> remember that when Debbie was in class we had websites that she 
> >> could navigate with little difficulty, but when she pressed a 
> >> button that was to start a video important to her class work, it 
> >> might well open a player that had no identifiable buttons to JAWS 
> >> for Windows. This was like going 90 miles an hour in hitting a 
> >> brick wall. It was like being handed an ice cream cone and then being
told you couldn't eat it.
> >>
> >> I am guessing that there are solutions to the problems you're 
> >> facing, but to really help, I need to know more. Please share on 
> >> the list or send me a private email. Also remember that there is a 
> >> National Association of Blind Students list and a Missouri 
> >> Association of Blind Students list. Both can be joined by going to 
> >> Nfbnet.org. I caution that the national list has quite a bit of 
> >> traffic, so part of being able to use it effectively is asking your 
> >> questions and looking at those items that relate to what you have 
> >> asked or to those items that you can respond to in helping someone
else.
> >>
> >> Warmly,
> >>
> >> Gary
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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