[NFBMT] Chromebook

Fri May 18 19:22:05 UTC 2018

Now that I have the orbit, I want to get brave enough to work with the 
I phone and the Braille display.
My friends do this all of the time, where I am just learning how to do 
the orbit.
I think they also have it set up with android.
I thought APH worked on that quickly so all matched.
When we started with the I products, I wanted to throw the phone out 
the window, one problem was I didn't think I would find the phone 
outsie, so I didn't get it done. loll.
Now face book changes all of the time, where this is the reason why the 
girls enjoy using the Braille display to run face book.
I don't know if the Colorado center teaches Braille displays where it 
would be nice to have someone teaching it where I could learn faster.
Thanks for writing in Dan.

Original message:
> Joy,

> I'm using Firefox version 60 with NVDA. Partly I do this for the
> reasons Jom cited - cost. I am not going to spend any more of my
> personal money on JAWS. I tried the really cheap version that came out
> about four or five years ago, but it was also stripped of
> functionality. Why pay anything?

> I agree iwth Jim about Apple projects, but I've had an iPhone
> grudgingly since 2011. When it comes time to replace it I balk and
> study and come close to getting an Android phone, but just can't bring
> myself to do it. I hate the Apple world and I don't even back up to
> iCloud or store music there. I've never even activated my iCloud
> account because I don't want to be part of it.  And yet, and yet ...
> It's hard to let go of the accessibility of an iPhone for an Android,
> even though I think the iPhone is less friendly to blind users than
> even a few years ago.

> Maybe I'm just like you Jim sticking to JAWS. Android is probably
> maybe almost good enough .. just about. Not quite.

> (grin)
> Dan

> On 5/16/18, BRESLAUERS via NFBMT <nfbmt at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I've heard that if you use a 32 bit version of Firefox that it works with
>> JAWS.  That is what I am using and I have had no trouble.  I am using
>> Firefox
>> 52.8.032.

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NFBMT <nfbmt-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Dan Burke via NFBMT
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 11:15 AM
>> To: NFB of Montana Discussion List <nfbmt at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Dan Burke <burke.dall at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [NFBMT] Chromebook

>> We were just in a strategic planning session at CCB the other day and I
>> brought up the state of web browsers and screen readers as a problem in our
>> SWOT exercise.  Now, I admit that I haven't used Internet explorer for
>> maybe
>> ten years, I've disliked it that much, xcept there are some things that I
>> couldn't do or find in Firefox.  Recently upgrades to Firefox totally aced
>> out JAWS - and for a while NVDA.  Now NVDA works with Firefox and JAWS
>> still
>> doesn't work right, though some will tell me it does.  So what does this
>> mean? Edge isn't yet viable as a browser for screen reader users. Internet
>> explorer, as I love to point out, is no longer a modern screen reader as
>> defined by some web sites.  Jaws doesn't work with firefox.

>> So in the past six months or so I've gone from using JAWS about 50 percent
>> of
>> the time to about 5 percent of the time, and NVDA about 95 percent of the
>> time.  Yet this morning I turned it on to work on our Colorado Gives
>> massive
>> website because NVDA wasn't showing me things I knew must be there.

>> My argument here is that we're in a crappy place for screen readers and
>> browsers at the moment, but also that JAWS isn't king anymore. It doesn't
>> have the advantages over NVDA that it once have, and it doesn't have the
>> web
>> capabilities to blow everything else out of the water anymore. And web
>> access
>> is where everything is now - school, work, personal banking, shopping and
>> entertainment. I'm not sure JAWS is even a prince now,  but maybe only a
>> besotted old earl. (grin)

>> So a training at the convention on the use of NVDA is a good idea. It 's
>> free
>> and it would be handy for anyone to be able to switch over to it if they
>> get
>> stuck  or frustrated on a web site at some point, just as I switched to
>> JAWS
>> this morning.

>> Best,
>> Dan

>> On 5/16/18, Edward Robbins via NFBMT <nfbmt at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Great suggestion.
>>> Ted

>>> EDWARD C "TED" ROBBINS, E-MAIL:  ecrobbins517 at gmail.com CEO MBEI &
>>> Treasurer NFB of Montana PHONE & FAX:  406 453 6678, CELL:  406 799
>>> 6268
>>> 104 RIVERVIEW 5 E
>>> GREAT FALLS  MT   59404

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBMT <nfbmt-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jim Marks via
>>> NFBMT
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:25 AM
>>> To: 'NFB of Montana Discussion List' <nfbmt at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Jim Marks <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBMT] Chromebook

>>> You know, it might be a good idea to invite BLVS to provide a training
>>> session of some sort at convention.  For example, BLVS staff could
>>> teach us how to use NVDA on a Windows 10 system.  I think this would
>>> be more useful to more people than a training on a Chromebook because
>>> NVDA and Windows 10 are used by many of our members.  Chromebooks are
>>> mostly a tool for education.  Another idea is for BLVS to show us how
>>> to access online information about technology.  There are a ton of
>>> resources out there that include text tutorials, video tutorials, and
>>> podcasts.  I tend to use Blind Bargains and Flying Blind.  Access
>>> World also has some good stuff, and the NFB technology folks do a
>>> terrific job of informing us.  For example, I see that the NFB is
>>> offering
>> a free online training for Narrator on May 21.
>>> Good podcasts include Blind Bargains, The Blind Side, and Cool Blind
>>> Tech.
>>> I bet BLVS would be pleased to offer the training, and it would help
>>> the NFB-MT connect with BLVS in positive ways.  Plus, it could attract
>>> new members to our convention.

>>> Jim Marks
>>> Blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>>> (406) 438-1421

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBMT [mailto:nfbmt-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of BRESLAUERS
>>> via NFBMT
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 10:11 AM
>>> To: 'NFB of Montana Discussion List' <nfbmt at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: BRESLAUERS <breslauerj at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBMT] Chromebook

>>> In order to do a tutorial session over the phone, each student would
>>> have to have access to a Chrome book.  Maybe that would be something
>>> fun to do at convention.  We have often talked about having a
>>> technology fair.  Joy

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBMT <nfbmt-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jim Marks via
>>> NFBMT
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2018 8:57 AM
>>> To: 'NFB of Montana Discussion List' <nfbmt at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Jim Marks <blind.grizzly at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBMT] Chromebook

>>> Sure, I would be willing to share what I've learned.  In the case of
>>> ChromeVox, the screen reader for Chrome OS and Chromebooks, Google
>>> provides really good tutorials online.  The tutorials consist of both
>>> text and video-based lessons.
>>> Mastering technology is never achieved by anyone because technology
>>> develops very rapidly.  We are all stuck in a perpetual learning
>>> curve.  For instance, I learned last night that the Android apps on a
>>> Chromebook use the Talkback screen reader built into Android.  I had
>>> to search on Google for directions on how to operate Talkback on the
>>> Chromebook.  What I discovered is that ChromeVox automatically shuts
>>> off when one goes into an Android app on a Chromebook.
>>> Talkback takes over, and there are separate commands to operate Talkback.
>>> These commands are similar to ChromeVox commands, so it wasn't hard to
>>> learn them.  This sort of discovery happens all the time with
>>> technology.  All it takes to manage all the learning is an attitude of
>>> problem solving, curiosity, and time.  Also, a person needs a sense of
>>> adventure and purpose.
>>> For sure, the days of running just one screen reader and one operating
>>> system are gone.
>>> Technology is more and more going to mobile devices, and the future
>>> promises more change than any of us think is reasonable.  That said,
>>> it would be good to spend some time teaching one another what we know,
>>> and I would be happy to do so.

>>> Jim Marks
>>> Blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>>> (406) 438-1421

>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NFBMT [mailto:nfbmt-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of d m gina
>>> via NFBMT
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 9:20 PM
>>> To: nfbmt at nfbnet.org
>>> Cc: d m gina <dmgina at mysero.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [NFBMT] Chromebook

>>> With all the knowledge you have with different screen readers, coud
>>> you teach it over the phone if someone got the same as you have?
>>> So far we are in a ten not a mack.
>>> I find it interesting a friend of mine still uses a mack but went back
>>> to windows.

>>> Original message:
>>>> Interestingly enough, my Chromebook out-performed my Windows 10 PC
>>>> and Android tablet today as I reviewed a website for accessibility
>>>> and usability.  It was a remarkable difference as my Chromebook
>>>> showed me stuff on the page the others could not handle even a little
>>>> bit.
>>>> Besides the Chrome OS, ChromeVox, and Chrome, I reviewed the site
>>>> with Jaws and NVDA using Internet Explorer and Firefox as well as
>>>> with Android, Talkback, and Chrome.  The Chromebook handled the page
>>>> far better than the other tools.  Since I was reviewing only one
>>>> website, it's probably premature to declare the Chromebook the
>>>> winner.  I'll be reviewing many more sites soon, so I'll let all know
>>>> if the Chromebook success persists.  Also, it may be the Chrome
>>>> browser that's best in any operating system.  I did not use Chrome
>>>> with Jaws or NVDA.  Still, using Chrome with Android provided a
>>>> lesser quality access than Chrome with Chrome OS.

>>>> I'm very sad about how terrible Jaws and IE are these days.  IE is
>>>> rapidly getting out of date.  I understand that Microsoft is not
>>>> continuing IE development because the company is putting its eggs in
>>>> the MS Edge browser.  As far as I know, Jaws does not yet work well
>>>> with MS Edge.  And there are issues using Jaws and Firefox and Chrome
>>>> browsers as well.  NVDA looks pretty good, but Jaws remains the king.
>>>> My point in mentioning this is that our current IT requires blind
>>>> users to apply a variety of screen readers and browsers.  We talked
>>>> about
>>>> this phenomena the other day.   Moreover, blind users have to know more
>>>> than one operating system to stay current.  My three are Windows 10,
>>>> Android, and Chrome OS.  Sometime, I will have to rekindle my
>>>> knowledge of Apple IOS and to learn for the first time how to operate
>>>> a Mac PC.
>>>> Hard to accept that I feel nostalgia for simpler technology times.
>>>> To move forward, diversity in IT is a must, though.

>>>> Jim Marks
>>>> Blind.grizzly at gmail.com
>>>> (406) 438-1421

>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: NFBMT [mailto:nfbmt-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Dan Burke
>>>> via NFBMT
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2018 1:32 PM
>>>> To: NFB of Montana Discussion List <nfbmt at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Dan Burke <burke.dall at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NFBMT] Chromebook

>>>> Thanks Jim.

>>>> It's actually about the same price as many Android tablets.

>>>> On 5/14/18, Jim Marks via NFBMT <nfbmt at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> Here is my initial report on using a Chromebook and its built-in
>>>>> screen reader, ChromeVox.

>>>>> I bought the Chromebook on Amazon.  It cost $177, and it is a
>>>>> refurbished Samsung with 4GB RAM and a 32GB SSD.  Its 11-inch screen
>>>>> is not a touch screen.  It looks like a regular small laptop.

>>>>> Chromebooks are designed to run apps and to store date on the cloud.
>>>>> They primarily use the Google products such as Chrome and G Suite,
>>>>> but they also run Android apps and other online services such as MS
>>>>> Office 365.  It is possible to use a Chromebook offline, but it's
>>>>> best when connected to the Internet.  Its keyboard is designed for
>>>>> Chromebook.
>>>>> For example, it has no F keys, and it includes a new key called the
>>>>> Search key, and this key is also called the ChromeVox key because
>>>>> it's used to operate the screen reader much like the Insert key
>>>>> modifies Jaws keystrokes.  Although the Samsun is quite small, it
>>>>> fits my large hands just fine.  I'm using lots of online tutorials
>>>>> and videos to learn how to operate a Chromebook and to use ChromeVox.

>>>>> All-in-all, Chromebook and ChromeVox work well.  At this point, I do
>>>>> not think it will replace a PC for me, but it will serve well for
>>>>> portable computing.  I think of it as being like using an Android
>>>>> smart phone or tablet.  Also, now, my user experience is a bit
>>>>> awkward, mostly because I have yet to commit the ChromeVox
>>>>> keystrokes to muscle memory.  It's happening fast, though, because
>>>>> ChromeVox is natural even though it means learning new keystrokes
>>>>> and new ways of doing things.  The speech is very responsive and easy
>>>>> to
>> understand.
>>>>> I speed up the speech a great deal, and I prefer using the UK
>>>>> English voice.  Insofar as I know, only female voices are available
>>>>> now.  Oh, it is possible to add a refreshable Braille display to a
>>>>> Chromebook as
>>> well.

>>>>> Facebook works very well.  I use Chrome and m.facebook.com, and the
>>>>> experience is quite nice.  ChromeVox includes a feature called
>>>>> "sticky
>>> key"
>>>>> in which one quickly presses the Search/ChromeVox key twice, and
>>>>> then one can navigate with keystrokes that consist of a single key
>>>>> or two keys pressed simultaneously.  When in sticky mode, it's not
>>>>> possible to type, but all it takes to get out of sticky mode is two
>>>>> rapid strokes on the Search/ChromeVox key.

>>>>> I'm having troubles reading Gmail, but this is caused by my
>>>>> ignorance on the keystrokes.  As I learn those keystrokes, I'm
>>>>> confident I will be able to use Gmail with no problems.  I can also
>>>>> add apps like Aqua Mail or Outlook.

>>>>> In the future, I'll provide more updates.  At this point, I think a
>>>>> Chromebook would be a very good alternative to an Android tablet
>>>>> because it operates entirely with a keyboard and because it's
>>>>> inexpensive.  I don't think I could, at this point, recommend a
>>>>> Chromebook as a replacement for a PC, though.

>>>>> Best!

>>>>> Jim Marks

>>>>> Blind.grizzly at gmail.com <mailto:Blind.grizzly at gmail.com>

>>>>> (406) 438-1421

>>>> --
>>>> Dan Burke
>>>> President, NFB of Denver

>>>> "Blindness is not what holds you back.  You can live the life you want!"
>>>> My Cell:  406.546.8546
>>>> Twitter:  @DallDonal

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>>> --
>>> --Dar
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>> --
>> Dan Burke
>> President, NFB of Denver

>> "Blindness is not what holds you back.  You can live the life you want!"
>> My Cell:  406.546.8546
>> Twitter:  @DallDonal

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> --
> Dan Burke
> President, NFB of Denver

> "Blindness is not what holds you back.  You can live the life you want!"
> My Cell:  406.546.8546
> Twitter:  @DallDonal

> _______________________________________________
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-- 
--Dar
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every saint has a past
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