[NFBP-Talk] FW: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written CommentPeriod EXTENDED

Wed May 30 23:06:11 UTC 2018

Thank you, Emily, I do appreciate the explanation and the videos. 

So glad I asked on list. Thank you for myth busting for me and probably others as well on list to shy to ask, smile.

Becky 

From: NFBP-Talk <nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Emily W. Gindlesperger via NFBP-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 8:48 AM
To: 'NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list' <nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Emily W. Gindlesperger <skewbdobdo at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [NFBP-Talk] FW: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written CommentPeriod EXTENDED

Hello,

As Joe pointed out, some claim UEB math is good because it reflects the visual math equation better – but the point is not to make the braille look like the print, the goal is to make the braille understandable to the user.

Even the teacher teaching the UEB math class at Pitt (and she wrote the book) admitted that the code is really only good up to fourth grade math.  At this point, other ambiguous modifiers or symbols – whatever they would like to call them – are added in.  At the level of calculus, the Nemeth symbol is only 2 cells I believe, while the UEB math is call an unknown written symbol and is 6 or 7 cells long.  This lack of clarity would end up being far too confusing and limit the students ability to go further in math or science – it would not be their own intelligence stopping them but the access code.  An UEB math equation can average 20-80% longer than a Nemeth equation.

Also, here is a link to an equation editor.  The sighted teacher, parent or aide can type in the math equation in the top and it is automatically translated into Nemeth code.  There is a visually Nemeth code display at the bottom and the equation is sent to the students refreshable braille display immediately.  This is not possible with UEB math.

http://accessibility.pearson.com/aee/  

Also, on youtube there is a wonderful video of a Nemth UEB comparison done by an actual math teacher who learned the braille codes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZaG4mzW0OI <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZaG4mzW0OI&t=31s> &t=31s

From: NFBP-Talk <nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Josh Kennedy via NFBP-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:47 AM
To: NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list <nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org> >
Cc: Josh Kennedy <joshknnd1982 at gmail.com <mailto:joshknnd1982 at gmail.com> >
Subject: Re: [NFBP-Talk] FW: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written CommentPeriod EXTENDED

Yes, for math, nemeth works the best especially on the new orbit reader 20 low cost display. 

Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>  for Windows 10

From: Drenth, Joe via NFBP-Talk <mailto:nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:44
To: NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list <mailto:nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org> 
Cc: Drenth, Joe <mailto:Joe.Drenth at JBTC.COM> 
Subject: Re: [NFBP-Talk] FW: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written CommentPeriod EXTENDED

Hi Becky,

It is actually quite the opposite: The Nemeth Code was designed to optimize performance of students in STEM fields, since the literary codes (EBAE and UEB) are too clumsy and too inefficient to use when solving problems using braille, either by hand with a Perkins-style Braille writer or using an electronic refreshable Braille display.

Sighted teachers of the visually impaired and certain Dept. of Ed. Administrators say that UEB for math represents the printed math more closely and therefore should be used, but that does not help a student in the least when trying to solve a problem that already takes up so much space.

There are many, many reasons why we should continue to encourage the use of the specialized Nemeth Code for Math and Science Content, and the Braille Authority of North America promotes it for this use, as well.

Joseph Drenth 
Senior R&D Software Engineer 

JBT Corporation  |  Automated Systems 

400 Highpoint Drive 
Chalfont, PA  18914, USA

E:  <mailto:joe.drenth at jbtc.com> joe.drenth at jbtc.com  P: 215 822 4457

 <http://www.jbtc-agv.com/> www.jbtc-agv.com 

From: NFBP-Talk [mailto:nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Becky Frankeberger via NFBP-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 10:19 AM
To: 'NFB of Pennsylvania Talk, state list'
Cc: Becky Frankeberger
Subject: Re: [NFBP-Talk] FW: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written Comment Period EXTENDED

Please correct me if I misunderstood something. As I understand you can’t use the Nemeth Code and excell in the STEM Courses. The Nemeth Code actually hurts a young person’s progress in this field of study. 

We are about to build a high school with the emphasis on STEM near my home. 

Warmly,

Becky who wants to understand  

From: NFBP-Talk <nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbp-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> > On Behalf Of Drenth, Joe via NFBP-Talk
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 6:00 AM
To: nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org <mailto:nfbp-talk at nfbnet.org> 
Cc: Drenth, Joe <Joe.Drenth at JBTC.COM <mailto:Joe.Drenth at JBTC.COM> >
Subject: [NFBP-Talk] FW: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written Comment Period EXTENDED

Hello everyone,

If you are not aware of the situation, the Pennsylvania Department of Education, Bureau of Special Education is trying very hard to get rid of the Nemeth Code for Math and Science Content in Pennsylvania and replace it with the vastly inferior UEB math notation. 

The Bureau of Special Education is currently taking public input for a very short time on the matter of replacing the Nemeth Code with UEB math notation, so if you feel strongly about this issue, as I do, please submit your comments electronically by this Friday at noon by following the instructions in the email below.

Thank you very much,

Joe

Joe Drenth

First Vice-President, NFB of Pennsylvania

From: Lynn Fox [ <mailto:LFox at pattanpgh.net> mailto:LFox at pattanpgh.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2018 3:52 PM
To: Lynn Fox < <mailto:LFox at pattanpgh.net> LFox at pattanpgh.net>
Cc: Jennifer Edgar < <mailto:jedgar at pattankop.net> jedgar at pattankop.net>; Doug Williams < <mailto:dwilliams at pattan.net> dwilliams at pattan.net>; Natalie Sokol < <mailto:nSokol at pattan.net> nSokol at pattan.net>; Gombocz, John < <mailto:jgombocz at pa.gov> jgombocz at pa.gov>; Becky (Rebecca) Fogle < <mailto:RFogle at pattankop.net> RFogle at pattankop.net>
Subject: LAST CALL: UEB Public Forum Written Comment Period EXTENDED

Hello Vision Supervisors, Professionals, and Families ---

The Bureau of Special Education’s (BSE) Public Forum on Pennsylvania's Unified English Braille (UEB) Implementation for Math and Technical Content period to submit written comment has been extended. Interested stakeholders now have till Friday, June 1, 2018 at 12:00pm to submit their responses to the three questions purposed for input. 

Please forward this extension notice onto ALL stakeholders in your network -- vision professionals/colleagues, material specialists, IU/LEA supervisors, and students with visual impairments and their families.  

Your immediate attention is requested to help spread the word regarding this extension announcement and 

to encourage stakeholder participation.

In preparation to submit individual comments, Pennsylvania (PA) stakeholders should review the posted 20 minute video regarding the Unified English Braille (UEB) transition plan as well as the attached Penn Link regarding the opportunity to submit written comments. These resources are posted to the PaTTAN website at:

*          <http://www.pattan.net/> www.pattan.net 

*         Educational Initiatives

*         Blind/Visual Impairment

*         Featured Resources

*         BVI/Braille Forum: Stakeholder Feedback

Written comments pertaining to which braille code or codes Pennsylvania students will use for braille math and technical materials in the future maybe submitted by email to  <mailto:ra-edbvibraille at pa.gov> ra-edbvibraille at pa.gov, based on the following three questions under consideration: 

1.	What would be the impact of using UEB for math and technical materials?
2.	What would be the impact of using Nemeth Code with UEB for math and technical materials?
3.	What would be the impact if Pennsylvania continued to support both full UEB and the Nemeth Code with UEB for math and technical materials?

Thank you for your interest and timely responses. 

Kind regards, 

Lynn 

Lynn A. Fox, Ed.D., COMS| Educational Consultant

Pennsylvania Training and Technical Assistance Network (PaTTAN)

3190 William Pitt Way | Pittsburgh, PA 15238

412-826-6865 (direct line) | 800-446-5607 (in PA only)

412-826-1964 (fax)

www.pattan.net <http://www.pattan.net/> 

The mission of the Pennsylvania Training and Technical Assistance Network (PaTTAN) is to support the efforts and initiatives of the Bureau of Special Education and to build the capacity of local educational agencies to serve students who receive special education services.

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