[Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder

Tue Feb 19 08:01:57 UTC 2013

And, skateboarding has absolutely no interest in you. lol! kidding!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
To: "Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List" 
<sportsandrec at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 6:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] echo location was blind skateboarder

> Justin L.,
>
> Thank you!  This makes a lot of sense and is very useful.  I think I have 
> missed a lot of this discussion because I thought people were still 
> talking about skateboarding, which I have absolutely no interest in.
>
> So where do you teach this stuff? Do you travel and do weekend workshops 
> or do blind people travel to you?  I am very interested in learning this 
> skill.  I use some very basic echolocation skills, but nowhere near what 
> you are telling me is possible.
>
> How does wind and weather conditions affect this ability?  I live in 
> Nebraska where it is perpetually windy.  There are days when the wind is 
> blowing 40mph and I can't hear anything but the wind.
>
> Also, I am primarily a guide dog user so the cane tap method isn't going 
> to be any sort of useful to me.  My dog makes course corrections further 
> in advance of any of my other dogs.  I appreciate his thoughtfulness and 
> planning, but if I was more aware of why he is wanting to do what he is 
> suggesting to me, it would be a huge help.  There are times that he wants 
> to take a detour, but I insist that we continue only to find out two 
> driveways down that people are moving and there is a van parked across the 
> sidewalk and stuff everywhere, making it impossible to go by.   We end up 
> backtracking and making the turn he suggested in the first place.
>
> Thank you again for the excellent explanation of what is possible.   I 
> honestly had no idea.
> Julie
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2/15/2013 7:38 AM, JUSTIN LOUCHART wrote:
>> Hello, Everyone,
>>
>> I'm going to point out that there are two Justins involved with this
>> conversation. There's Justin Williams, who wants to hide his potential
>> echolocation abilities, and there's me, Justin Louchart, who is an
>> echolocation teacher and strives to make my skills and the skills of
>> others public information available to all interested  parties.
>>
>> Julie, in response to your question about cane taps being used for
>> echolocation, there are two parts to my answer as an educator and as a
>> scientist in the field.
>>
>> First, yes, your cane tap can be used as a relatively bad echolocation 
>> signal.
>>
>> Second, emphasis on the relatively bad.
>>
>> The cane tap comes from the ground, hits the target, and reaches the
>> ears. Meaning that all of your images are going to be bent, blurry,
>> and inconsistent. Not only that, but furthermore there is no real aim
>> or directionality in using a cane tap. Next, the cane tap doesn't work
>> on all or even most surfaces. You cannot modulate the volume or the
>> frequency of the cane tap in anywhere near the same way you can a
>> tongue click. Finally, your acuity simply isn't as good with a cane
>> tap, no matter what you do. You won't be able to see the front versus
>> the back of a car with your cane tap from fifteen feet away.
>>
>> It might be worth mentioning that if you're using your cane tap for
>> echolocation, riding a bicycle independently in unknown environments,
>> riding a mountain bike on advanced trails, hiking on your own, doing
>> independent mountain climbing, doing advanced tree climbing, and
>> accomplishing a thousand other independent recreational activities is
>> much less convenient or likely to happen.
>>
>> I have no fear when I travel, no matter what I'm asked to do. Flash
>> sonar and other perceptual mobility techniques give me the options to
>> do anything from walk to the grocery store without running into
>> anything to go bicycling on an unknown street with my students. Flash
>> sonar opened doors for me and for countless others that most blind
>> folks don't even realize are closed to them. If you ask most blind
>> people why they don't go mountain biking, hiking, or why they don't
>> play soccer with sighted peers, they're going to tell you that they
>> don't even want to. Well, how much of their not wanting to is a result
>> of their not thinking it's easy or fun? How much of it is because
>> blindness and people around blindness indicated to them that it's
>> either impossible, or not worth the effort?
>>
>>
>> I don't have to worry about any of that. I see my environment quite
>> similarly to any sighted person, mine just doesn't have color or
>> extremely fine details. I can choose how to navigate an environment
>> usually a block or half a block away, depending on clutter. If you
>> have that preparation, a million things are easier.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On 2/15/13, Julie J.<julielj at neb.rr.com>  wrote:
>>> I'm confused as to why you want to hide your abilities?     I don't get
>>> the sense that you are embarrased or that you think it would truly be a
>>> bother to other people.
>>>
>>> Also, doesn't the tap of the cane tip provide a sound from which to use
>>> for echolocation?  Maybe you've discussed this, I don't know.  Again the
>>> subject was about skateboarding so I wasn't reading.
>>>
>>> Very curiously,
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Justin,
>>>>
>>>> Well, do ya think most sighted people will be none the wiser about
>>>> what you are doing, unless they know what to be listening for?
>>>> Perhaps, amongst other blind folk, such an ability might be hard to
>>>> conceal, but relax about your treasure. What's the point of hiding it
>>>> when, I'm sure you don't see sighted people concealing the fact that,
>>>> they might be able to ocularly see. For me, seeing without eyes even
>>>> is a tremendous asset to my travel, in fact to most fasits of
>>>> mobility, and my life in general.
>>>> Please don't see this as an attack. I'm just befuddled.
>>>> Car 09:24 AM 2/11/2013, justin williams wrote:
>>>>> I can't figure out a good work around as of yet.  I really don't want
>>>>> everyone to hear the clicking.  I believe in keeping your abilities
>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Sportsandrec [mailto:sportsandrec-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf 
>>>>> Of
>>>>> Carly Mihalakis
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 4:57 PM
>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List; 'Sports and
>>>>> Recreation for the Blind Discussion List'
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>
>>>>> In an event that no one has yet answered, you sort of slide your 
>>>>> tongue
>>>>> against the roof of your mouth, in the way that some people make a
>>>>> little
>>>>> noise while they are absent mindedly, pondering something. I  have
>>>>> successfully made any type of similar sound, functioning as a sort of
>>>>> tongue
>>>>> click, but a little less obvious, something that I can only perceive.
>>>>> Play
>>>>> with it, you can use anything to offer the same feedback about which
>>>>> you are
>>>>> looking device to offer similar  effects of a tongue click, such as
>>>>> drawing
>>>>> in some breath between your top teeth. That also works very well in
>>>>> situations where one must be quiet, as they try to navigate.
>>>>> Car
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> JUSTIN LOUCHART
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:59 PM
>>>>>> To: Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Sportsandrec] Blind skateboarder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi, Jody,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben's echolocation ability was quite good, but by no means unique.
>>>>>> Virtually anyone can learn flash sonar to that degree. It simply 
>>>>>> takes
>>>>>> diligence. It's easier than you might think; just most people don't
>>>>>> ever have training in it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/10/13, Jody Ianuzzi<jody at thewhitehats.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been offline for a week so this may be old news.  Ben
>>>>>>> Underwood had a remarkable echolocation ability.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am sad to say he died a few years ago at only 16 years old.  His
>>>>>>> blindness was caused by cancer of the retina and his eyes were
>>>>>>> removed when he was 2.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately the cancer returned and he died of brain cancer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> JODY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Justin Louchart
>>>>>> JALOUCHART at GMAIL.COM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Inveniam Viam Aut Faciam
>>>>>>
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>>>>
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>
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