[Travelandtourism] In-Store And Online Shopping

Wed Feb 22 20:09:44 UTC 2012

Well, that's right and the ultimate goal of the nature of independence is to 
take charge of one's life.

Margo and Arrow
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] In-Store And Online Shopping

> Hello Margo and everyone,
>
>    That's exactly my point. For me it's not necessary to go to the grocery
> store to examine a bag of dogfood. On the other hand if we're buying a 
> home
> appliance a trip to the brick and mortar store would definitely be in 
> order.
>
>    This discussion is taking on shades of Dr. Jernigan's Speech "The 
> Nature
> of Independence" al be it on a different level. There are those who have
> moved beyond the cane, vs. dog, vs. human arm discussion to applying his
> thoughts in every life including how we shop for goods and services. This 
> is
> going to be different for every blind person. there is no right or wrong
> answer.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Margo and Arrow" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] In-Store And Online Shopping
>
>
> Yep, and, there are things I can shop for online or in the store, but, 
> there
> are things I must go to look at at a brick and mortar store.
>
> margo andArrow
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 1:18 PM
> Subject: [Travelandtourism] In-Store And Online Shopping
>
>
>> Hello Cheryl and everyone,
>>
>>    And put convenience ahead of supposed dependence when necessary. If 
>> you
>> have someone to drive you to a place like Sam's or cosco and drive you
>> home
>> with your load it works out. However, tell me of someone who lugged
>> several
>> cases on a public bus or a train? There are times when it's a good idea 
>> to
>> get out of the house and do in-store shopping but there are also 
>> instances
>> when shopping online has its advantages as in our case. For example why
>> should we waste our time going to the grocery store to pick up dogfood
>> when
>> we could have it delivered to our doorstep freeing us to make better use
>> of
>> our time doing other projects such as building the division's Web site?
>> When
>> and where we shop is a matter we as blind persons must decide for
>> ourselves
>> just as the sighted do.
>>
>> Peter Donahue
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
>> To: "travelandtourism" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 11:05 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
>> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> No Offense Peter on this.
>> But that is how we become less independent, we need to be out shopping 
>> and
>> being involved.
>> Some people even become hermits so to say, and that people don't want to
>> leave there homes because of the online shopping, yes I do online 
>> shopping
>> and basically I am an internet business, I don't have a physical office 
>> in
>> my home, or I would have to pay a varence I think that is how it is
>> spelled,
>> with the town where I live to have a physical business in my home, etc
>> with
>> certain insurances to cover business in my home.
>> But that being said, I think that was the wrong way to go.
>> Again, I know Peter was joking, and I am not yelling or anything at this.
>>
>> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>> 631-456-5394
>> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>
>> For daily updates read our blog at
>> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
>>
>>> From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com
>>> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
>>> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 10:30:12 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very 
>>> happy
>>> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>>>
>>> Good morning everyone,
>>>
>>>     Praise God for online shopping!
>>>
>>> Peter Donahue
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Julie J." <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 7:46 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very 
>>> happy
>>> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>>>
>>>
>>> Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation.  I want to say it was in the early
>>> to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler vs.
>>> Cosco.  It centered around these same issues of
>>> certification/paperwork/proof.  the case was handled quite badly and the
>>> judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't remember all
>>> the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent.  To me it
>>> looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the ADA, but
>>> the judge didn't agree.  I'm remembering that the case was appealed with
>>> the same results.  The case did not make it to the Supreme Court.
>>>
>>> I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they
>>> do and why they get away with it.  Not saying it's right.  Certainly if
>>> someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that could
>>> be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous ruling.
>>>
>>> Good luck with it,
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the
>>> > National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and
>>> > Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of
>>> > the
>>> > Blind.
>>> > Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all locations,
>>> > with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other forms of
>>> > mobility that one is comfortable with.
>>> > This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide  dog) and
>>> > myself,
>>> > did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not know what
>>> > COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where you buy in
>>> > bulk,
>>> > we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I also buy dog food
>>> > there.
>>> > We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
>>> > When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady
>>> > at
>>> > the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
>>> > Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first
>>> > there
>>> > is no  paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such thing.
>>> > The
>>> > schools must be licensed just like any other business, in fact, some
>>> > train
>>> > there own guide dogs, so this statement that the lady made, was
>>> > incorrect,
>>> > also the training for the dog makes it a guide dog.
>>> > > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's
>>> > > manager,
>>> > > since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager always
>>> > > apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and also 
>>> > > that
>>> > > the employees didn't know better.
>>> > That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct that 
>>> > I
>>> > need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am
>>> > standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, and
>>> > guide dog in harness.
>>> > I stated that there is no such  thing, what makes the dog a guide dog,
>>> > or
>>> > for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the training
>>> > that
>>> > the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to tell me that
>>> > others
>>> > have shown him this paperwork, again, what paperwork. I stated not 
>>> > only
>>> > am
>>> > I a graduate of the Guide Dog Foundation of Smithtown, that was less
>>> > then
>>> > 5 minutes away from this location, but that I am a member of that
>>> > National
>>> > Association of Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the National
>>> > Federation of the Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help
>>> > make and enforce the ADA laws pertaining to this.  He basically almost
>>> > called me a liar, he said that I am not going to continue the
>>> > conversation.
>>> > He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service
>>> > desk
>>> > with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to call on
>>> > my
>>> > cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really bad, and so
>>> > we
>>> > did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
>>> > My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that her
>>> > immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask for the
>>> > paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this down, so
>>> > that
>>> > I
>>> > could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, and Margo Downey,
>>> > President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
>>> > I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I
>>> > did
>>> > this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was given 
>>> > the
>>> > name of the Regional Vice President of the Area.  I called him, and he
>>> > was
>>> > not there, so I left him a detailed message.
>>> > Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went
>>> > to,
>>> > called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to me,
>>> > he
>>> > didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was actually
>>> > blind.
>>> > I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the phone
>>> > numbers that I needed, and did shop.  He began to make excuses for
>>> > himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he said,
>>> > that
>>> > a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or something
>>> > indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him on that
>>> > saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store without a 
>>> > cape,
>>> > harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can ask me is that a
>>> > working dog/service, guide dog, and what service does the dog provide.
>>> > He was very patronizing still.
>>> > I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in
>>> > his
>>> > car driving home from work.
>>> > The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind
>>> > and
>>> > common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my dark
>>> > glasses, not all blind people are totally blind.  There are also some
>>> > people who are not blind that use a service animal, children that are
>>> > autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc.  It is not always a
>>> > characteristic
>>> > of the person, to have something that  identifies them as being
>>> > disabled,
>>> > and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
>>> > He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not 
>>> > costco's
>>> > policy it is the ADA law.  I  was trying to give him our National
>>> > Hotline
>>> > for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about Guide Dogs, ADA,
>>> > etc,
>>> > our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 1-888-624-3841, that is how I
>>> > found out he was on his car phone on the way home, he told me that he
>>> > couldn't take the number because he was driving home from work.  Gee, 
>>> > I
>>> > was really important to speak to on this. I mentioned that in NY State
>>> > it
>>> > is a civil violation of our law, other states have criminal laws in
>>> > reference to these violations.
>>> > After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion 
>>> > and
>>> > Margo.  Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and asked
>>> > there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, he also
>>> > got
>>> > the corporate information, and has been in talks with Costco in
>>> > Seattle.
>>> > It seems that they are saying that they are a private organization and
>>> > that you need to pay a membership to go there and that they are 
>>> > outside
>>> > the ADA.
>>> > FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to my
>>> > gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to pay
>>> > to
>>> > eat there, or go to a movie or theater.  So that I couldn't go 
>>> > anywhere
>>> > with my dog.
>>> > I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service
>>> > animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is considered
>>> > a
>>> > service dog.
>>> > It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in
>>> > your
>>> > pocketbook.  It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no cats,
>>> > birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more.  You must have a valid medical
>>> > disability that you can get one.  So many disabilities and illnesses
>>> > can
>>> > qualify for a service animal now.
>>> > Stayed tuned for more
>>> > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>>> >
>>> > Cheryl Echevarria
>>> > http://www.echevarriatravel.com
>>> > 631-456-5394
>>> > reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>>> >
>>> > For daily updates read our blog at
>>> > http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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