[Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy with over at COSTCO on Monday
cheryl echevarria
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Wed Feb 22 21:57:22 UTC 2012
Once the client, let's say yourself has offered all health certificates etc prior to sailing they cannot ask you once boarding if that is a guide dog or a service animal. They already know because of all the paperwork submitted.
Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
Cheryl Echevarria
http://www.echevarriatravel.com
631-456-5394
reservations at echevarriatravel.com
For daily updates read our blog at
http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> From: margo.downey at verizon.net
> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:48:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
> Cindy, two questions can be asked of a person with a service animal:
>
> 1. Is the animal a service animal; and
>
> 2. what tasks does the animal perform for you?
>
> Margo and Arrow
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 3:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> with over at COSTCO on Monday
>
>
> > Why is it acceptable for a cruise company or Walt Disney World to ask if a
> > dog is a guide dog, but it's not acceptable for Cosco to do so?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: cheryl echevarria
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 2:27 PM
> > To: travelandtourism
> > Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> > with over at COSTCO on Monday
> >
> >
> >
> > Cindy:
> > There is no apparently about it. As a travel professional, as well as,
> > anyone else booking travel is not only bringing your guide dog on a cruise
> > ship or on vacation. When booking a trip, there are forms to fill out
> > prior to traveling.
> > Such as with a cruise, there are access forms to be filled out. Asking if
> > you need oxygen, braille, wheelchair accessibility, bringing guide
> > dog/service animal onboard.
> > So you no you just cannot bring a pet on board a cruise ship. You cannot
> > just bring a dog into Walt Disney World or other locations. So nothing
> > supersedes the ADA, since the guide dog laws are part of the ADA.
> > If you are going to lie to your travel professional and take the dog on
> > vacation with you, we wont know that until you say something.
> > We are not talking about people pretending to be blind, deaf, wheelchair,
> > maybe a child with autism, we are talking about us the blind who are. If
> > people are out there doing this for shame on them. There are plenty,
> > anyone can buy a harness for there dog and say that they are disabled. It
> > is up to the person who is doing the farce, to keep up the lying, making
> > sure the dog does and acts the way they are suppose to. Our dogs and
> > others are trained to be in control, and be good in manor, if not then the
> > dog can asked to be removed from the place of acceptance.
> > If someone is violating the ADA, then they will be caught for breaking the
> > laws in violation as well, impersonating someone who is not disabled and
> > getting away with it, in reference to received disability, etc. there are
> > very stiff fines in place already for this. It is called fraud.
> >
> >
> > Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> >
> > Cheryl Echevarria
> > http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> > 631-456-5394
> > reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> >
> > For daily updates read our blog at
> > http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> >
> >> From: cindy425 at verizon.net
> >> To: travelandtourism at nfbnet.org
> >> Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2012 14:14:51 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> >> with over at COSTCO on Monday
> >>
> >> Thanks Margo and Julie for your non-answers. Yes, I know it's illegal,
> >> because the ADA apparently says so. But, it seems that it's a bad
> >> portion
> >> of the law. If I, as a non guide dog user, wanted to have a pet dog and
> >> take him/her with me on a cruise or on vacation, then it seems all I need
> >> to
> >> do is think of a reason that I should have this dog with me and
> >> apparently I
> >> can't be challenged or even questioned about it. It leaves the area wide
> >> open for abuse and people who can actually prove that the dog is a guide
> >> dog
> >> are getting all upset because someone dares to ask for some proof.
> >>
> >> Then, does this mean that the ADA supersedes the previous guide dog laws
> >> which have been in place for decades?
> >>
> >> Cindy
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Margo and Arrow
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:21 PM
> >> To: NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
> >> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> >> with over at COSTCO on Monday
> >>
> >> Whether it's objectionable or not the ADA says one cannot ask for such
> >> proof.
> >>
> >> Margo and Arrow
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cindy Handel" <cindy425 at verizon.net>
> >> To: "NFB Travel and Tourism Division List" <travelandtourism at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 12:12 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very happy
> >> with over at COSTCO on Monday
> >>
> >>
> >> > I'm just curious...I don't have a guide dog, but my husband does. I've
> >> > heard, for a long time, discussion about people objecting to proving
> >> > that
> >> > their dog is a guide dog. Why is this request so objectionable? I
> >> > thought that was why the schools issue the identification cards.
> >> >
> >> > Cindy
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Julie J.
> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 8:46 AM
> >> > To: NFB Travel and Tourism Division List
> >> > Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Good morning all something not very
> >> > happy
> >> > with over at COSTCO on Monday
> >> >
> >> > Cosco is a bit of a sticky situation. I want to say it was in the
> >> > early
> >> > to mid 90's there was a court case with a service dog handler vs.
> >> > Cosco. It centered around these same issues of
> >> > certification/paperwork/proof. the case was handled quite badly and
> >> > the
> >> > judge ruled that Cosco could ask for documentation. I can't remember
> >> > all
> >> > the details of the case, but it set a very bad precedent. To me it
> >> > looks obvious that the verdict is in direct opposition to the ADA, but
> >> > the judge didn't agree. I'm remembering that the case was appealed
> >> > with
> >> > the same results. The case did not make it to the Supreme Court.
> >> >
> >> > I would take a guess this is why Cosco has the service dog policy they
> >> > do and why they get away with it. Not saying it's right. Certainly if
> >> > someone has a solid case and wants to take it back to court that could
> >> > be a very good thing because it could overturn the previous ruling.
> >> >
> >> > Good luck with it,
> >> > Julie
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 2/22/2012 6:54 AM, cheryl echevarria wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I am posting this to not only the NYAGDU (NY State Division of the
> >> >> National Association of Guide Dog Users), but also to the Travel and
> >> >> Tourism Division), both proud divisions of the National Federation of
> >> >> the
> >> >> Blind.
> >> >> Traveling is also traveling with accessible entrance to all locations,
> >> >> with cane, sighted guide, as well as, guide dog, or other forms of
> >> >> mobility that one is comfortable with.
> >> >> This past Monday, Presidents Day, Nelson, Maxx (my guide dog) and
> >> >> myself, did our bi-monthly shopping of Costco, if some of you do not
> >> >> know
> >> >> what COSTCO is, it is one of the those membership stores where you buy
> >> >> in
> >> >> bulk, we don't buy a lot because it is the 2 of us, and I also buy dog
> >> >> food there.
> >> >> We have been members of Costco for over 12 years.
> >> >> When we entered the store after showing our membership card, the lady
> >> >> at
> >> >> the door, asked to see my dogs certification paperwork.
> >> >> Now for those who are not blind and do not know the ADA laws, first
> >> >> there
> >> >> is no paperwork for a guide dog, and certified, just no such thing.
> >> >> The
> >> >> schools must be licensed just like any other business, in fact, some
> >> >> train there own guide dogs, so this statement that the lady made, was
> >> >> incorrect, also the training for the dog makes it a guide dog.
> >> >> > From there, I said that I am just going to speak to the store's
> >> >> > manager, since I had been in this situation prior, but the manager
> >> >> > always apologized for the incorrect way the person talk to me, and
> >> >> > also
> >> >> > that the employees didn't know better.
> >> >> That day was different, the manager, told me that it was correct that
> >> >> I
> >> >> need to show paperwork on my dog that he is a guide dog, now, I am
> >> >> standing in front of him with dark glasses that blind people wear, and
> >> >> guide dog in harness.
> >> >> I stated that there is no such thing, what makes the dog a guide dog,
> >> >> or
> >> >> for anyone else that is disabled, is the disability and the training
> >> >> that
> >> >> the dog gets to be a service animal, he proceeded to tell me that
> >> >> others
> >> >> have shown him this paperwork, again, what paperwork. I stated not
> >> >> only
> >> >> am I a graduate of the Guide Dog Foundation of Smithtown, that was
> >> >> less
> >> >> then 5 minutes away from this location, but that I am a member of that
> >> >> National Association of Guide Dog Users, a proud division of the
> >> >> National
> >> >> Federation of the Blind, and we are one of the organizations that help
> >> >> make and enforce the ADA laws pertaining to this. He basically almost
> >> >> called me a liar, he said that I am not going to continue the
> >> >> conversation.
> >> >> He did not tell me I had to leave, but I want to the customer service
> >> >> desk with my husband to get the corporate phone number, I tried to
> >> >> call
> >> >> on my cell phone while I was there, but the reception was really bad,
> >> >> and
> >> >> so we did shop, and then when we got home I made the calls.
> >> >> My first was to customer service, the young lady on the phone that her
> >> >> immediate supervisor said that was the policy of Costco to ask for the
> >> >> paperwork, she gave me his name, I was writing all of this down, so
> >> >> that
> >> >> I could give to Marion Gwizdala, President of NAGDU, and Margo Downey,
> >> >> President of the NY affiliate of NAGDU (NYAGDU).
> >> >> I was then given the number to call for the legal department, when I
> >> >> did
> >> >> this they said that I couldn't speak to anyone but that I was given
> >> >> the
> >> >> name of the Regional Vice President of the Area. I called him, and he
> >> >> was not there, so I left him a detailed message.
> >> >> Within a half and hour, the General Manager, at the store that I went
> >> >> to,
> >> >> called me back, and it sounded like he was forced to apologize to me,
> >> >> he
> >> >> didn't realize that I left the store, or the fact that I was actually
> >> >> blind.
> >> >> I informed him, that I never left the store, but went to get the phone
> >> >> numbers that I needed, and did shop. He began to make excuses for
> >> >> himself, that he was following training procedures, and that he said,
> >> >> that a service animal must have a harness on or a blanket, or
> >> >> something
> >> >> indicated that they are working dogs. I also corrected him on that
> >> >> saying, that is not correct, I can come into this store without a
> >> >> cape,
> >> >> harness, etc on the dog, and the only thing you can ask me is that a
> >> >> working dog/service, guide dog, and what service does the dog provide.
> >> >> He was very patronizing still.
> >> >> I didn't hear from his Vice President until after 5pm when he was in
> >> >> his
> >> >> car driving home from work.
> >> >> The man kept saying, that is should be obvious that someone is blind
> >> >> and
> >> >> common sense, but I stated, not always, I do not always wear my dark
> >> >> glasses, not all blind people are totally blind. There are also some
> >> >> people who are not blind that use a service animal, children that are
> >> >> autistic, diabetic, seizure, deaf, etc. It is not always a
> >> >> characteristic of the person, to have something that identifies them
> >> >> as
> >> >> being disabled, and you are not allowed to ask the disability either.
> >> >> He also said, that he hates enforcing policy, I said it is not
> >> >> costco's
> >> >> policy it is the ADA law. I was trying to give him our National
> >> >> Hotline
> >> >> for NAGDU, and if anyone every has questions about Guide Dogs, ADA,
> >> >> etc,
> >> >> our Hotline number is 1-888-NAGDU-411 or 1-888-624-3841, that is how I
> >> >> found out he was on his car phone on the way home, he told me that he
> >> >> couldn't take the number because he was driving home from work. Gee,
> >> >> I
> >> >> was really important to speak to on this. I mentioned that in NY State
> >> >> it
> >> >> is a civil violation of our law, other states have criminal laws in
> >> >> reference to these violations.
> >> >> After this, I informed the people who needed to know such as Marion
> >> >> and
> >> >> Margo. Mr. Gwizdala, first contact the Costco in his area, and asked
> >> >> there policy, he was told basically the same thing, as myself, he also
> >> >> got the corporate information, and has been in talks with Costco in
> >> >> Seattle. It seems that they are saying that they are a private
> >> >> organization and that you need to pay a membership to go there and
> >> >> that
> >> >> they are outside the ADA.
> >> >> FYI, if that is true, which it is not, then I cannot take my dog to my
> >> >> gym, it is a private membership, or go to a restaurant you have to pay
> >> >> to
> >> >> eat there, or go to a movie or theater. So that I couldn't go
> >> >> anywhere
> >> >> with my dog.
> >> >> I would say if you are a guide dog user, or even if you use a service
> >> >> animal, and the laws have changed to what kind of animal is considered
> >> >> a
> >> >> service dog.
> >> >> It cannot be a comfort dog, it cannot be the dog you carry around in
> >> >> your
> >> >> pocketbook. It also must be either a dog, or a guide horse, no cats,
> >> >> birds, snakes, monkeys, etc any more. You must have a valid medical
> >> >> disability that you can get one. So many disabilities and illnesses
> >> >> can
> >> >> qualify for a service animal now.
> >> >> Stayed tuned for more
> >> >> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheryl Echevarria
> >> >> http://www.echevarriatravel.com
> >> >> 631-456-5394
> >> >> reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> >> >>
> >> >> For daily updates read our blog at
> >> >> http://www.echevarriatravel.wordpress.com
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Travelandtourism mailing list
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
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> >> >
> >> > -----
> >> > No virus found in this message.
> >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2113/4825 - Release Date:
> >> > 02/22/12
> >> >
> >>
> >>
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