[blindkid] blindkid Digest, Vol 119, Issue 5
Lucy Sirianni
lucysirianni at earthlink.net
Sun Mar 9 15:32:29 UTC 2014
Hi Crystal,
I'm very frustrated on your behalf! I attended various
camps, including music camps, from age 9 onward, and I never had
an aide or any other accommodation besides receiving materials in
Braille. I think this camp's stipulation that you sponsor
another student is both unreasonable and unnecessary, and I worry
about the incorrect sense of Ben's capabilities that other
campers might receive if he were constantly being "helped" by a
student assistant, though perhaps this could be made to work if
you were given the opportunity to have clear communication with
the student beforehand.
Do you have a sense of what the camp's particular concerns
are? What exactly do the people you've spoken with anticipate Ben
needing extra help with, and how do they justify not providing
this help themselves should it in fact be necessary (which seems
unlikely)?
I'm sorry you've had to deal with this experience. Some of
my best memories of my teenage years come from my time at a
summer music program that I attended from age 12 through age 17.
This program had never had a blind student before, but the
faculty and students were tremendously welcoming and open, never
in any way seeing my blindness as a barrier to my full
participation. Though I'm no longer involved in music, I
continue to keep in close touch with many of the friends I made
there. I share this experience just to let you know that the
camp you're in contact with now is in no way representative of
what you might find in future interactions with different
programs.
Best of luck with this, and I hope you'll keep the list
posted!
Lucy
----- Original Message -----
From: Crystal Schumacher <crystal_schu at hotmail.com
To: blindkid ask <blindkid at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 18:22:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [blindkid] blindkid Digest, Vol 119, Issue 5
I am so thankful for this list! It is comforting to know that I
can voice my anger, frustration, and hurt, where others will
understand. Then I can get "crazy Mom" out of my system and
return to the real world as a calm and rational parent. I think
it's important to keep the conversation going with the camp and
I'm in too far now to let my hard work go to waste. They have
now suggested that if I sponsor another student, who wouldn't
have the financial means to attend the camp on their own, and the
student was willing to assist Ben, it may work. I was going to
have to pay for the adult male aid and would much rather help
another student. We are getting closer, but no definite answer
as of yet. By the way, Ben was horrified at the thought of
someone helping him in the shower!
Crystal
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:47:59 -0700
From: arielle71 at gmail.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] blindkid Digest, Vol 119, Issue 5
I went on a couple of international trips during my freshman
year of
college and had no special accommodations. I would ask another
student
in my group for sighted guide or go with one of the supervisors.
I did
experience some pushback when I wanted to join on hikes, but
that's a
different problem.
Now that I've had structured-discovery training, if I went on
another
trip like that I would probably be more comfortable just
following the
group and exploring on my own during free time.
Arielle
On 3/8/14, Susan Polansky <polanskyse at gmail.com> wrote:
Our teenage son has attended a private camp for 3 summers. He
gets
familiar with the cabin when he checks in then he gets from
point A to
point B by walking with the other kids either in a group or
sometimes with
another camper acting as sighted guide. The other kids are
always willing
to help, sometimes more than he needs or wants but then he
politely informs
them what he does or does not need and they go on from there.
Susan Polansky
Susan Polansky
On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:00 AM, <blindkid-request at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp (Crystal
Schumacher)
2. Re: Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp (Deborah Kent
Stein)
3. Re: Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp (Arielle
Silverman)
4. Re: Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp (Crystal
Schumacher)
5. Re: Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp (Bo Page)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 20:42:28 -0800
From: Crystal Schumacher <crystal_schu at hotmail.com
To: blindkid ask <blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
Message-ID: <SNT153-W73B39566B1368C884F475BFF8B0 at phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
My son Ben is 13 years old and is in 7th grade. He is blind
with light
perception. He attends middle school with seven hundred other
students.
He
has an aide in 3 of his classes, Science, Math, & English. His
GPA is
3.8.
He is in his second year of band and plays the trumpet by ear.
He has
just
recently started learning the Braille music code. He wants to
attend a
band
camp, which is a private camp that we would pay for. If you are
a special
needs student, you must first get permission from the camp to
register.
I called and talked to the camp and in the 40 years of existence
they
have
never had a blind student attend. The camp does not offer or is
unwilling
to provide any additional support. I think the only support Ben
would
need
is in navigating the camp, as it is very large. I have told
them that Ben
would do orientation and mobility training before the camp
starts, as
well
as create a tactile map, use a Braille copy of the schedule, and
a
talking
watch to get to places on time. They are unwilling to allow Ben
to attend
without an Aide. I was trying to avoid an Aide because it gets
in the
place
of making friends and Ben wants to be as independent as
possible. They
said
if he had a friend going, who would be his buddy, we may be able
to avoid
the Aide. He really doesn't have that kind of a friend, more
acquaintances.
One point of him going was to try and make a friend or
connection.
I am wondering if anyone out there has been in this situation.
What did
you do? Did you go as your child's Aide? Did you hire someone?
Did you
pay
for another student to attend with your child? Did you give up?
I have
already sent a dozen emails and on top of it his school found
out about
his
desire to go to band camp. They made it a topic during his IEP
meeting
and
wanted input from his teachers as to weather he should be
allowed to
attend. But mind you, it is a private camp that I would be
paying 100% of
the tuition, and has nothing to do with public school.
Frustrated in
Oregon!
Crystal
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 21:56:43 -0800
From: "Deborah Kent Stein" <dkent5817 at att.net
To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind
children\)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
Message-ID: <E420BE44DE9B43CA9C8BD0D3FFAB9356 at debkentHP
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Dear Crystal,
This story is very disturbing to me! Back in the late Sixties
my
brother,
who is also blind, applied to several music camps (including the
famous
Interlocken in Michigan) and was told that they categorically
did not
accept
blind students. I would like to think we've gotten beyond that
level of
discrimination in the past 45 years, but clearly we have a ways
to go.
Our
parents kept looking until they found a music camp that was very
receptive;
my brother had a great time and returned for several more
summers. You
could try to fight this band camp and negotiate to get Ben
accepted, but
it
may be a better bet to look for other options instead.
Somewhere there
is
a camp where he will actually be welcome from the outset, where
he can
make
friends and learn music and have fun without the stress of
feeling that
people are constantly afraid he is going to cause them extra
trouble.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal Schumacher
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:42 PM
To: blindkid ask
Subject: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
My son Ben is 13 years old and is in 7th grade. He is blind
with light
perception. He attends middle school with seven hundred other
students.
He
has an aide in 3 of his classes, Science, Math, & English. His
GPA is
3.8.
He is in his second year of band and plays the trumpet by ear.
He has
just
recently started learning the Braille music code. He wants to
attend a
band
camp, which is a private camp that we would pay for. If you are
a special
needs student, you must first get permission from the camp to
register.
I called and talked to the camp and in the 40 years of existence
they
have
never had a blind student attend. The camp does not offer or is
unwilling
to
provide any additional support. I think the only support Ben
would need
is
in navigating the camp, as it is very large. I have told them
that Ben
would
do orientation and mobility training before the camp starts, as
well as
create a tactile map, use a Braille copy of the schedule, and a
talking
watch to get to places on time. They are unwilling to allow Ben
to attend
without an Aide. I was trying to avoid an Aide because it gets
in the
place
of making friends and Ben wants to be as independent as
possible. They
said
if he had a friend going, who would be his buddy, we may be able
to avoid
the Aide. He really doesn't have that kind of a friend, more
acquaintances.
One point of him going was to try and make a friend or
connection.
I am wondering if anyone out there has been in this situation.
What did
you
do? Did you go as your child's Aide? Did you hire someone? Did
you pay
for
another student to attend with your child? Did you give up? I
have
already
sent a dozen emails and on top of it his school found out about
his
desire
to go to band camp. They made it a topic during his IEP meeting
and
wanted
input from his teachers as to weather he should be allowed to
attend. But
mind you, it is a private camp that I would be paying 100% of
the
tuition,
and has nothing to do with public school. Frustrated in Oregon!
Crystal
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 23:04:06 -0700
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
Message-ID:
<
CALAYQJB3aCogw9rHh4p6WNekNpnmouY4MBRV1JpD2zGdEHCvNQ at mail.gmail.co
m
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I agree. I don't know if ADA covers private camps like this,
but if
their attitude is so negative already, I'm not sure I would
trust them
to treat Ben well even if you successfully get him accepted.
Unless
there's something else special about this camp, I'd say keep
looking.
When I was a kid I wasn't allowed to attend Jewish camp with my
sister
because my mother was the one who thought I would need an aide
and she
told me an aide would be too expensive. Good for you to trust
that
your son can participate on his own.
Arielle
On 3/6/14, Deborah Kent Stein <dkent5817 at att.net> wrote:
Dear Crystal,
This story is very disturbing to me! Back in the late Sixties
my
brother,
who is also blind, applied to several music camps (including the
famous
Interlocken in Michigan) and was told that they categorically
did not
accept
blind students. I would like to think we've gotten beyond that
level
of
discrimination in the past 45 years, but clearly we have a ways
to go.
Our
parents kept looking until they found a music camp that was very
receptive;
my brother had a great time and returned for several more
summers. You
could try to fight this band camp and negotiate to get Ben
accepted,
but
it
may be a better bet to look for other options instead.
Somewhere
there
is
a camp where he will actually be welcome from the outset, where
he can
make
friends and learn music and have fun without the stress of
feeling that
people are constantly afraid he is going to cause them extra
trouble.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal Schumacher
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:42 PM
To: blindkid ask
Subject: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
My son Ben is 13 years old and is in 7th grade. He is blind
with light
perception. He attends middle school with seven hundred other
students.
He
has an aide in 3 of his classes, Science, Math, & English. His
GPA is
3.8.
He is in his second year of band and plays the trumpet by ear.
He has
just
recently started learning the Braille music code. He wants to
attend a
band
camp, which is a private camp that we would pay for. If you are
a
special
needs student, you must first get permission from the camp to
register.
I called and talked to the camp and in the 40 years of existence
they
have
never had a blind student attend. The camp does not offer or is
unwilling to
provide any additional support. I think the only support Ben
would need
is
in navigating the camp, as it is very large. I have told them
that Ben
would
do orientation and mobility training before the camp starts, as
well as
create a tactile map, use a Braille copy of the schedule, and a
talking
watch to get to places on time. They are unwilling to allow Ben
to
attend
without an Aide. I was trying to avoid an Aide because it gets
in the
place
of making friends and Ben wants to be as independent as
possible. They
said
if he had a friend going, who would be his buddy, we may be able
to
avoid
the Aide. He really doesn't have that kind of a friend, more
acquaintances.
One point of him going was to try and make a friend or
connection.
I am wondering if anyone out there has been in this situation.
What did
you
do? Did you go as your child's Aide? Did you hire someone? Did
you pay
for
another student to attend with your child? Did you give up? I
have
already
sent a dozen emails and on top of it his school found out about
his
desire
to go to band camp. They made it a topic during his IEP meeting
and
wanted
input from his teachers as to weather he should be allowed to
attend.
But
mind you, it is a private camp that I would be paying 100% of
the
tuition,
and has nothing to do with public school. Frustrated in Oregon!
Crystal
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
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0gmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 23:34:13 -0800
From: Crystal Schumacher <crystal_schu at hotmail.com
To: blindkid ask <blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
Message-ID: <SNT153-W4675D23F46A4712507D090FF8B0 at phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yes, I am feeling like this camp is more work than it is worth.
It is not
Ben that needs an aide, but the sighted camp, because they are
afraid and
uncomfortable with blindness. However, I feel that I need to
send Ben, so
they can see what a blind kid can do. If I don't send him, it
will be
another 40 years and nothing will change. If he does attend,
they may
learn
something and decide that blind kids aren't so scary. I want to
change
what
it means to be blind in Oregon and does Ben!
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 23:04:06 -0700
From: arielle71 at gmail.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
I agree. I don't know if ADA covers private camps like this,
but if
their attitude is so negative already, I'm not sure I would
trust them
to treat Ben well even if you successfully get him accepted.
Unless
there's something else special about this camp, I'd say keep
looking.
When I was a kid I wasn't allowed to attend Jewish camp with my
sister
because my mother was the one who thought I would need an aide
and she
told me an aide would be too expensive. Good for you to trust
that
your son can participate on his own.
Arielle
On 3/6/14, Deborah Kent Stein <dkent5817 at att.net> wrote:
Dear Crystal,
This story is very disturbing to me! Back in the late Sixties
my
brother,
who is also blind, applied to several music camps (including the
famous
Interlocken in Michigan) and was told that they categorically
did not
accept
blind students. I would like to think we've gotten beyond that
level
of
discrimination in the past 45 years, but clearly we have a ways
to
go.
Our
parents kept looking until they found a music camp that was very
receptive;
my brother had a great time and returned for several more
summers.
You
could try to fight this band camp and negotiate to get Ben
accepted,
but it
may be a better bet to look for other options instead.
Somewhere
there is
a camp where he will actually be welcome from the outset, where
he
can
make
friends and learn music and have fun without the stress of
feeling
that
people are constantly afraid he is going to cause them extra
trouble.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal Schumacher
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:42 PM
To: blindkid ask
Subject: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
My son Ben is 13 years old and is in 7th grade. He is blind
with
light
perception. He attends middle school with seven hundred other
students. He
has an aide in 3 of his classes, Science, Math, & English. His
GPA is
3.8.
He is in his second year of band and plays the trumpet by ear.
He has
just
recently started learning the Braille music code. He wants to
attend
a
band
camp, which is a private camp that we would pay for. If you are
a
special
needs student, you must first get permission from the camp to
register.
I called and talked to the camp and in the 40 years of existence
they
have
never had a blind student attend. The camp does not offer or is
unwilling to
provide any additional support. I think the only support Ben
would
need is
in navigating the camp, as it is very large. I have told them
that
Ben
would
do orientation and mobility training before the camp starts, as
well
as
create a tactile map, use a Braille copy of the schedule, and a
talking
watch to get to places on time. They are unwilling to allow Ben
to
attend
without an Aide. I was trying to avoid an Aide because it gets
in the
place
of making friends and Ben wants to be as independent as
possible.
They
said
if he had a friend going, who would be his buddy, we may be able
to
avoid
the Aide. He really doesn't have that kind of a friend, more
acquaintances.
One point of him going was to try and make a friend or
connection.
I am wondering if anyone out there has been in this situation.
What
did you
do? Did you go as your child's Aide? Did you hire someone? Did
you
pay
for
another student to attend with your child? Did you give up? I
have
already
sent a dozen emails and on top of it his school found out about
his
desire
to go to band camp. They made it a topic during his IEP meeting
and
wanted
input from his teachers as to weather he should be allowed to
attend.
But
mind you, it is a private camp that I would be paying 100% of
the
tuition,
and has nothing to do with public school. Frustrated in Oregon!
Crystal
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
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u%40hotmail.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 03:20:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Bo Page <bo.page at sbcglobal.net
To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind
children\)"
<blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
Message-ID:
<1394191243.32671.YahooMailNeo at web181103.mail.ne1.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
You are in a situation with your son that many blind children
find
themselves in. I don't think there is an easy answer.?
Discrimination
among
the blind is alive an well, even in programs that NFB runs.? No
one wants
to spend the time or money for kids like ours who need extra
help.? Money
and budgets rule! Keep looking however, and I am sure you will
find
something, but unfortunately, it may be not be close to home.
Mother of blind 21 year old
________________________________
From: Crystal Schumacher <crystal_schu at hotmail.com
To: blindkid ask <blindkid at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, March 7, 2014 2:34 AM
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
Yes, I am feeling like this camp is more work than it is worth.
It is
not
Ben that needs an aide, but the sighted camp, because they are
afraid and
uncomfortable with blindness. However, I feel that I need to
send Ben, so
they can see what a blind kid can do. If I don't send him, it
will be
another 40 years and nothing will change. If he does attend,
they may
learn
something and decide that blind kids aren't so scary. I want to
change
what
it means to be blind in Oregon and does Ben!
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 23:04:06 -0700
From: arielle71 at gmail.com
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
I agree. I don't know if ADA covers private camps like this,
but if
their attitude is so negative already, I'm not sure I would
trust them
to treat Ben well even if you successfully get him accepted.
Unless
there's something else special about this camp, I'd say keep
looking.
When I was a kid I wasn't allowed to attend Jewish camp with my
sister
because my mother was the one who thought I would need an aide
and she
told me an aide would be too expensive. Good for you to trust
that
your son can participate on his own.
Arielle
On 3/6/14, Deborah Kent Stein <dkent5817 at att.net> wrote:
Dear Crystal,
This story is very disturbing to me!? Back in the late Sixties
my
brother,
who is also blind, applied to several music camps (including the
famous
Interlocken in Michigan) and was told that they categorically
did
not
accept
blind students.? I would like to think we've gotten beyond that
level
of
discrimination in the past 45 years, but clearly we have a ways
to
go.? Our
parents kept looking until they found a music camp that was very
receptive;
my brother had a great time and returned for several more
summers.?
You
could try to fight this band camp and negotiate to get Ben
accepted,
but it
may be a better bet to look for other options instead.?
Somewhere
there is
a camp where he will actually be welcome from the outset, where
he
can make
friends and learn music and have fun without the stress of
feeling
that
people are constantly afraid he is going to cause them extra
trouble.
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: Crystal Schumacher
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2014 8:42 PM
To: blindkid ask
Subject: [blindkid] Blind Student & The Sighted Band Camp
My son Ben is 13 years old and is in 7th grade. He is blind
with
light
perception. He attends middle school with seven hundred other
students. He
has an aide in 3 of his classes, Science, Math, & English. His
GPA
is
3.8.
He is in his second year of band and plays the trumpet by ear.
He
has
just
recently started learning the Braille music code. He wants to
attend
a band
camp, which is a private camp that we would pay for. If you are
a
special
needs student, you must first get permission from the camp to
register.
I called and talked to the camp and in the 40 years of existence
they
have
never had a blind student attend. The camp does not offer or is
unwilling to
provide any additional support. I think the only support Ben
would
need is
in navigating the camp, as it is very large. I have told them
that
Ben would
do orientation and mobility training before the camp starts, as
well
as
create a tactile map, use a Braille copy of the schedule, and a
talking
watch to get to places on time. They are unwilling to allow Ben
to
attend
without an Aide. I was trying to avoid an Aide because it gets
in
the
place
of making friends and Ben wants to be as independent as
possible.
They said
if he had a friend going, who would be his buddy, we may be able
to
avoid
the Aide. He really doesn't have that kind of a friend, more
acquaintances.
One point of him going was to try and make a friend or
connection.
I am wondering if anyone out there has been in this situation.
What
did you
do? Did you go as your child's Aide? Did you hire someone? Did
you
pay for
another student to attend with your child? Did you give up? I
have
already
sent a dozen emails and on top of it his school found out about
his
desire
to go to band camp. They made it a topic during his IEP meeting
and
wanted
input from his teachers as to weather he should be allowed to
attend.
But
mind you, it is a private camp that I would be paying 100% of
the
tuition,
and has nothing to do with public school. Frustrated in Oregon!
Crystal
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