[blindlaw] Pulling for Law Review

Thu Aug 18 20:08:31 UTC 2016

I use the KOCR Util that is bundled with Kurzweil when I want to try
and have footnotes preserved. I find that it is generally hit or miss.
So, for example, i will usually keep something as a PDF if reading it
in VoiceDream (which I do some legal work in occasionally) because for
some reason in that application you can't move by page in a Word
document; whereas in a regular MS Word session I'd keep it in Word.

Ty, are you using the FineReader engine separate from the Kurzweil 1000 program?

On 8/18/16, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I have found that ABYY FineReader does a great job of  preserving footnotes
> as such, rather than just throwing the text at the bottom of the page.
>
> Tai Tomasi, J.D.
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of James
> Fetter via BlindLaw
> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 2:36 PM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: James Fetter <jtfetter at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pulling for Law Review
>
> I think it does, but if I remember correctly, it does not structure them as
> footnotes/endnotes as you would typically see in a Word doc. It just throws
> them at the bottom of the page, and it can be hit or miss about getting the
> numbering correct. The one disadvantage of this program compared to Kurzweil
> is that the resulting Word document is not always paginated the same as the
> PDF. All of the page breaks from the PDF remain in the document, but a word
> document from a pdf with longer pages sometimes has additional page breaks,
> which makes it harder to get right to the desired page.
>
> On 8/18/2016 3:29 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote:
>> Very good to know; it might be good to have that as an alternative to
>> Kurzweil, and approx. $150 sounds reasonable especially compared to
>> Kurzweil's prices.
>>
>> No, our journal is exclusively electronic at this point. Mainly the
>> sighted folks use Adobe for underlining and highlighting, but I'll be
>> doing it somewhat differently.
>>
>> Do you know if the Nuance program can also identify
>> footnotes/endnotes? That would be immensely useful.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/18/16, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Yes, and it does a very good job. It sometimes even manages to
>>> identify tables  and structure them as such in the Word doc, and it
>>> also does a fair job of picking up on fonts, including italics. It
>>> also is good for scanning, if you have to scan and send a properly
>>> formatted document, say, a signed contract, to a sighted person, and
>>> it allows for the conversion of pdf-to-word (including OCR) from file
>>> explorer (once installed, options appear under the applications menu
>>> to convert pdf as document to word, as spreadsheet to excel, etc). I
>>> think it's over $100, but I have found it useful for a variety of
>>> things. And, as for the pdf merging business, well, I hope that I can
>>> change that and a variety of other things next year. Out of
>>> curiosity, does your journal still have people physically mark up
>>> printed documents as part of the editing process? Mine does, and
>>> although I can obviously use the word version of the article instead,
>>> I have wondered how common that particular requirement is as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/18/2016 3:14 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>> Interesting; that is not a requirement on my journal and it sounds
>>>> very laborious. Does that software do OCR on PDFs as well?
>>>>
>>>> On 8/18/16, James Fetter via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> For what it's worth, I always convert PDF's to Word first; it makes
>>>>> navigation and copy/paste considerably easier. My law review
>>>>> requires merging the pdf of the article or other source with the
>>>>> table of contents for the volume/issue of the journal in which I
>>>>> found it, and I would highly recommend a product (not cheap but
>>>>> very good) called Nuance Power PDF Advanced. It works very well as
>>>>> a pdf-to-word converter as well, sometimes better than Kurzweil
>>>>> 1000. I have found that even some text PDF's do not interact very
>>>>> well with Jaws, hence the strategy of preemptive conversion.
>>>>> Congratulations on being on journal, and please feel free to reach out
>>>>> with any questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/18/2016 12:50 PM, kelby carlson via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>>> My team has already said they will just avoid giving me print
>>>>>> sources that haven't already been scanned. I've told them it would
>>>>>> probably be easiest for me to convert problematic PDFs into Word with
>>>>>> Kurzweil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If anyone has suggestions about using the find feature in Adobe
>>>>>> that would be nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/18/16, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> I second everything Tai said. Except for the caveat that if
>>>>>>> certain articles were very print source heavy, I simply just
>>>>>>> switched off of them onto other articles. My law review team was
>>>>>>> very willing to be flexible with me in that way, as they would
>>>>>>> with, for instance, students who were studying abroad and so did
>>>>>>> not have access to ILL or to our print library. Alternatively,
>>>>>>> sometimes I would offer to check longer ranges of footnotes on
>>>>>>> articles in exchange for someone else taking on my print sources.
>>>>>>> Again, this was also a practice implemented for students studying
>>>>>>> abroad. I think the goal is to come up with equitable yet flexible
>>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/18/16, Tai Tomasi via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I ran inaccessible PDFs through ABYY FineReader or similar OCR
>>>>>>>> software when possible. If that did not render the document
>>>>>>>> accessible, I worked with a human reader to access them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tai Tomasi, J.D.
>>>>>>>> Staff Attorney
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 400 East Court Ave., Ste. 300
>>>>>>>> Des Moines, Iowa 50309
>>>>>>>> Tel: 515-278-2502; Toll Free: 1-800-779-2502
>>>>>>>> FAX: 515-278-0539; Relay 711
>>>>>>>> E-mail: ttomasi at driowa.org
>>>>>>>> www.driowa.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Our Mission:  To defend and promote the human and legal rights
>>>>>>>> of Iowans with disabilities
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments contain information from the law
>>>>>>>> firm of Disability Rights Iowa and are intended solely for the
>>>>>>>> use of the named recipient(s). This e-mail may contain
>>>>>>>> privileged attorney-client communications or work product. Any
>>>>>>>> dissemination by anyone other than an intended recipient is
>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not a named recipient, you are prohibited
>>>>>>>> from any further viewing of the e-mail or any attachments or
>>>>>>>> from making any use of the e-mail or attachments. If you have
>>>>>>>> received this e-mail in error, notify the sender immediately and
>>>>>>>> delete the e-mail, any attachments, and all copies from any
>>>>>>>> drives or storage media and destroy any printouts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>>>>>>>> kelby carlson via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:13 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Cc: kelby carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Pulling for Law Review
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not always the one pulling sources directly, and i'm having
>>>>>>>> a lot of trouble with certain PDFs. The regular ctrl-F command
>>>>>>>> doesn't seem to work right, and the JAWS find command can only
>>>>>>>> search the page that is on the screen.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, how exactly did you deal with print sources?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 8/18/16, jim--- via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I made journal this year myself, and would appreciate any infor
>>>>>>>>> you get 'r'
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of kelby carlson via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 12:03 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Cc: kelby carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Pulling for Law Review
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am wondering if anyone on here has been on law review in the
>>>>>>>>> past and has pulled sources. The production team and I are
>>>>>>>>> struggling to figure out an efficient process to do this with a
>>>>>>>>> screen reader. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'd like to do
>>>>>>>>> as much of it independently as possible.
>>>>>>>>>
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