[nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
T. Joseph Carter
tjcarter at spiritsubstance.com
Tue Oct 4 23:22:48 UTC 2011
If you read my message, I said we DID try to educate. But Amazon
clearly didn't get the message.
Joseph
On Tue, Oct 04, 2011 at 06:08:28PM -0400, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>Yep. We did have the protests. Then when they had a text to speech
>feature on the product, the publishers and author's guild stepped in
>and
>said No. Then Amazon silenced the text to speech feature unless the
>publisher would permit audio.
>Before you say we do not educate or try other approaches, it might be
>good to read past press releases from NFB on the actions or a quick
>scan of the braille monitor will tell you the same thing. Major
>events such as protests are recorded in the monitor.
>
>-----Original Message----- From: T. Joseph Carter
>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 5:43 PM
>To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; NFB Talk Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the
>BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
>
>For the record, we did try educating. Amazon has proven to be a
>particularly difficult pupil. We've had mass demonstrations
>involving coalitions of different disability organizations, both NFB
>and ACB united among them (HOW OFTEN does that happen?!) and yet
>Amazon seems to be backsliding again.
>
>Amazon originally made every one of their books audiobooks if the
>(sighted) user wished. Publishers screamed. And we responded that
>we should have access to them, if they were audiobooks. It took a
>couple of years to get a Kindle we could use, and then only with
>those books the publishers would deign to allow to talk. (Apple and
>Blio consequently both have managed to make accessibility to their
>books a universal affair!)
>
>And now after years of fighting for this, efforts at negotiation,
>failure of negotiation efforts leading to lawsuits, and finally
>winning, now Amazon does this! It's a slap in the face to every
>person with a disability. They apparently didn't get the message!
>
>Since you call for education, there's some history for you.
>
>Joseph
>
>
>On Tue, Oct 04, 2011 at 04:21:54PM -0500, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>>Yeah yeah yeah, and if the NFB decided to educate instead of talk too
>>much and go to court over everything and anything then maybe
>>organizations such as Amazon would be more willing and receptive to
>>making their products accessible. Just saying ...
>>
>>On 04.10.2011, Prows, Bennett (HHS/OCR) <Bennett.Prows at hhs.gov> wrote:
>>>I might jump in here to say, that sometimes when someone like this is
>>>educated a bit more, he might change his tune. for example,
>>>since we know
>>>that touch-screen technology is now usable by blind persons, (witness
>>>i-phones, etc), and since other reading devices and software for
>>>downloading
>>>books is usable by the blind, (witness BLIO software, etc), there is no
>>>reason why Amazon can't make its device usable. And it does have
>>>proprietary rights on a lot of written material in electronic format that
>>>other companies and devices don't have. Also, we have been trying to get
>>>Amazon, one of the largest purveyors of e-books and devices in
>>>the world to
>>>comply with laws pertaining to providing devices to blind
>>>students, business
>>>professionals and other members of the public for a long time, yet that
>>>company has refused to work with us, etc. Perhaps the tirade would abate
>>>when he realizes that if we don't do something, we will be left behind in
>>>the age of rapid technology change, etc. Or, maybe his tirade wouldn't
>>>change. If not, might as well ignore the source.
>>>
>>>Thank God for Doctor Maurer and the NFB to keep fighting for our equal
>>>access to the technology out there.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Mike Freeman
>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:45 PM
>>>To: NFB Talk Mailing List
>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the
>>>BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
>>>
>>>I suspect Dr. Maurer can defend himself if he thinks it's important.
>>>
>>>Mike Freeman
>>>sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>On Oct 4, 2011, at 13:35, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>We wouldn't have had the issue, if the guy didn't insult Dr Maurer.
>>>>Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>>On 10/4/11, Jeanette Fortin <jeanette at fortin-home.com> wrote:
>>>>>well hum, i think insulting folks just because they disagree with you
>>>>>doesn't show too much intelligence either, this fellow is
>>>>>entitled to his
>>>>>opinion after all and whether you agree with im or not you are entitled
>>>>>to
>>>>>your opinion. jeanette
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Ray Foret Jr" <rforetjr at att.net>
>>>>>To: "NFB Talk Mailing List" <nfb-talk at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 1:54 PM
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nfb-talk] Fwd: Why did the National Federation of the
>>>>>BlindCondemns Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Why waste our time with this? Nothing new from the simple
>>>>>>minded sapps
>>>>>>who oppose us surely?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sincerely,
>>>>>>The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now a very proud and happy Mac user!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Skype name:
>>>>>>barefootedray
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Facebook:
>>>>>>facebook.com/ray.foretjr.1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On Oct 4, 2011, at 2:45 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi, it's Joshua Lester.
>>>>>>>Look at what this idiot just sent, to the entire NFB of Arkansas!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>From: terrysteve at suddenlink.net
>>>>>>>Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 13:59:48 -0500
>>>>>>>Subject: Why did the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>Condemns Lack of
>>>>>>>Access to New Kindle Fire?
>>>>>>>To: tosheeler at cox.net, bkshfreeman at gmail.com, bfreeman0420 at gmail.com,
>>>>>>>vtscott at cox.net, leaann1967 at gmail.com, j.scholes at sbcglobal.net,
>>>>>>>bogan1265 at yahoo.com, geofynder at gmail.com, Gogetm00 at aol.com,
>>>>>>>hayleyksch at gmail.com, dave.mehler at gmail.com, walkercutoff at att.net,
>>>>>>>Donna.Walker at arkansas.gov, Matt.Lyles at arkansas.gov,
>>>>>>>lyles_j at sbcglobal.net, honestblindman at gmail.com, pat.nfb at att.net,
>>>>>>>bkkindle at yahoo.com, Teddey3000 at aol.com, james.worley at cox.net,
>>>>>>>twedwards1111 at gmail.com, anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com,
>>>>>>>deweycoursey at cox.net,
>>>>>>>lizngraves at yahoo.com, erp at uark.edu, mika_hooper at yahoo.com,
>>>>>>>Matteri at cox.net, donbrey at gmail.com, trinitymlovell at gmail.com,
>>>>>>>clj_smith at yahoo.com, arspurplegirl at cox.net, delreal93 at yahoo.com,
>>>>>>>ctroby at uark.edu, e.yarberry at gmail.com,
>>>>>>>jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu,
>>>>>>>gvwright2 at juno.com, lhwayland at sbcglobal.net,
>>>>>>>joshcrunkleton at gmail.com,
>>>>>>>showard826 at gmail.com, jsexson at live.com, sflesher at yahoo.com,
>>>>>>>diane403bill at suddenlink.net, abhoxeng at yahoo.com, hoxeng at aol.com,
>>>>>>>barefootinar at yahoo.com, peter-hoffman at att.net, kaylaltodd at gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Get a grip folks! There are many devices designed, manufactured and
>>>>>>>sold
>>>>>>>that are not "blind friendly". And rightly so! It was
>>>>>>>stated that "The
>>>>>>>feasibility of including accessibility in similar products has been
>>>>>>>demonstrated." As a result of this statement there must be devices of
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>nature that are "blind friendly". So the blind apparently
>>>>>>>do have this
>>>>>>>technology available to them. And just to put a point on
>>>>>>>it, the Kindle
>>>>>>>Fire
>>>>>>>is a PERSONAL devise, not a community device. There are dozens of
>>>>>>>devices
>>>>>>>that use touch screens. None of these are "blind
>>>>>>>friendly". I doubt if
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>technology now exists to make them "blind friendly".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This tirade by Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National
>>>>>>>Federation of
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>Blind, is typical of individuals that get so fanatical
>>>>>>>about an issue
>>>>>>>they
>>>>>>>have loose touch with the reality of the real world in their
>>>>>>>unrealistic
>>>>>>>search for and unworldly and unobtainable utopia. I have books on my
>>>>>>>shelf
>>>>>>>that the blind cannot read; must all my books be audio? I have clocks
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>my
>>>>>>>home that the blind cannot use to tell the time; must all
>>>>>>>my clocks be
>>>>>>>talking. I drive a car that the blind cannot drive. This is not me
>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>unsympathetic to the blind or to the cause of the blind,
>>>>>>>it is me being
>>>>>>>realistic in my reality. There is technology that the
>>>>>>>blind cannot use
>>>>>>>because they are blind. Sorry, FACT! There is technology
>>>>>>>that cannot be
>>>>>>>made
>>>>>>>available to the blind due to our level of technology at this time.
>>>>>>>Touch
>>>>>>>screens in use by many devices again come to mind. Can't we focus on
>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>can be done and what needs to be done. Not on minor issues as that
>>>>>>>below?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Dr. Maurer should rethink his position regarding Amazon,
>>>>>>>waste not his
>>>>>>>energy on such nonsense and concentrate on those things
>>>>>>>which actually
>>>>>>>help
>>>>>>>our cause. Senselessly attacking anything that is not
>>>>>>>"blind friendly"
>>>>>>>actually hurts the cause. Using some common sense in choosing the
>>>>>>>issues
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>tackle is important to our cause.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Lets tone down the rhetoric and concentrate on issues that help our
>>>>>>>blind
>>>>>>>friends and make the public aware of their real needs and
>>>>>>>not insist on
>>>>>>>unnecessary requirements that turn the public against us
>>>>>>>and out cause
>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>make us look like foolish fanatics. Stop hurting our cause with self
>>>>>>>serving
>>>>>>>rhetoric.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Steve Terry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: <tosheeler at cox.net>
>>>>>>>To: <bkshfreeman at gmail.com>; <bfreeman0420 at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><vtscott at cox.net>;
>>>>>>><leaann1967 at gmail.com>; <j.scholes at sbcglobal.net>;
>>>>>>><bogan1265 at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>>><geofynder at gmail.com>; <Gogetm00 at aol.com>; <hayleyksch at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><dave.mehler at gmail.com>; <walkercutoff at att.net>;
>>>>>>><Donna.Walker at arkansas.gov>; <Matt.Lyles at arkansas.gov>;
>>>>>>><lyles_j at sbcglobal.net>; <honestblindman at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><pat.nfb at att.net>;
>>>>>>><bkkindle at yahoo.com>; <Teddey3000 at aol.com>; <james.worley at cox.net>;
>>>>>>><twedwards1111 at gmail.com>; <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>>><deweycoursey at cox.net>;
>>>>>>><lizngraves at yahoo.com>; <erp at uark.edu>; <mika_hooper at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>>><Matteri at cox.net>; <donbrey at gmail.com>; <trinitymlovell at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><clj_smith at yahoo.com>; <hayleyksch at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><arspurplegirl at cox.net>;
>>>>>>><delreal93 at yahoo.com>; <ctroby at uark.edu>; <e.yarberry at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>; <gvwright2 at juno.com>;
>>>>>>><jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>; <lhwayland at sbcglobal.net>;
>>>>>>><joshcrunkleton at gmail.com>; <showard826 at gmail.com>;
>>>>>>><jsexson at live.com>;
>>>>>>><sflesher at yahoo.com>; <diane403bill at suddenlink.net>;
>>>>>>><abhoxeng at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>>><hoxeng at aol.com>; <barefootinar at yahoo.com>;
>>>>>>><Terrysteve at suddenlink.net>;
>>>>>>><peter-hoffman at att.net>; <kaylaltodd at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 6:19 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Condemns
>>>>>>>Lack of Access
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>New Kindle Fire
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: "Freeh, Jessica" <JFreeh at nfb.org>
>>>>>>>>To: Alpidio Rolon <arguza at attglobal.net>, Amy Buresh
>>>>>>>><amy.buresh74 at gmail.com>,
>>>>>>>Art Schreiber <blindart at samobile.net>, Beth Rival
>>>>>>><erival at comcast.net>,
>>>>>>>Bill
>>>>>>>Packee <alaskanfb at yahoo.com>, Bob Kresmer <krezguy at cox.net>, Carl
>>>>>>>Jacobsen
>>>>>>><office at nfbny.org>, Cassandra McNabb <cemcnabb21 at yahoo.com>, Cathy
>>>>>>>Jackson
>>>>>>><cathyj at iglou.com>, Charlene Smyth <cs.nfbwv at verizon.net>, "Christine
>>>>>>>G.
>>>>>>>Hall" <c.tessa4 at comcast.net>, Dan Hicks <danjhicks at yahoo.com>, Daniel
>>>>>>>Burke
>>>>>>><burke.dall at gmail.com>, Don Galloway <dgalloway627 at gmail.com>, Donna
>>>>>>>Wood
>>>>>>><donnajwood at cox.net>, Duane Iverson <diverson at samobile.net>, Elsie
>>>>>>>Dickerson
>>>>>>><elsiedickerson at ymail.com>, Frank Lee <francois57 at comcast.net>,
>>>>>>>Franklin
>>>>>>>Shiner <fshiner at myfairpoint.net>, Fred Schroeder
>>>>>>><fschroeder at sks.com>,
>>>>>>>Garrick Scott <gscott at nfbga.org>, Gary Ray
>>>>>>><ghraynfbofnc at charter.net>,
>>>>>>>Gary
>>>>>>>Wunder <gwunder at earthlink.net>, Grace Pires <silvara at cox.net>, "J.W.
>>>>>>>Smith"
>>>>>>><jwsmithnfb at verizon.net>, James Antonacci
>>>>>>><president at nfbp.org>, Jeannie
>>>>>>>Massay <Jmassay1 at cox.net>, Jennifer Dunnam
>>>>>>><jennifer.dunnam1829 at gmail.com>,
>>>>>>>Joe Ruffalo <nfbnj at yahoo.com>, John Batron
>>>>>>><jbatron at maine.rr.com>, John
>>>>>>>Fritz
>>>>>>><johnfritz at centurytel.net>, Joy Harris <joy.harris at dwx.com>, Joyce
>>>>>>>Scanlan
>>>>>>><joyce.scanlan at earthlink.net>, Ken Rollman <gatorbumps at rushmore.com>,
>>>>>>>Kim
>>>>>>>Williams <rkvend at aol.com>, Kimberly Flores <kflores at nfb-texas.org>,
>>>>>>>Larry
>>>>>>>Posont <president.nfb.mi at gmail.com>, Lynn Majewski
>>>>>>><majla at verizon.net>,
>>>>>>>Mary
>>>>>>>Willows <mwillows at sbcglobal.net>, Melissa Riccobono
>>>>>>><melissa at riccobono.us>,
>>>>>>>Michael Barber <michael.NFBI at gmail.com>, Michael Freeman
>>>>>>><k7uij at panix.com>,
>>>>>>>Mika Pyyhkala <pyyhkala at gmail.com>, Nani Fife <nanifife at aol.com>, Pam
>>>>>>>Allen
>>>>>>><pallen at lcb-ruston.com>, Parnell Diggs <parnell at sccoast.net>, Patti
>>>>>>>Chang
>>>>>>><pattichang at att.net>, Rena Smith
>>>>>>><realhappygirl1 at gmail.com>, Ron Brown
>>>>>>><rb15 at iquest.net>, "Gardner, Ron" <RGardner at nfb.org>, Sam Gleese
>>>>>>><SGleese at city.jackson.ms.us>, Scott LaBarre
>>>>>>><slabarre at labarrelaw.com>,
>>>>>>>Terry
>>>>>>>Sheeler <tosheeler at cox.net>
>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2011 13:50:08 -0700
>>>>>>>>Subject: National Federation of the Blind Condemns Lack of Access to
>>>>>>>>New
>>>>>>>Kindle Fire
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>CONTACT:
>>>>>>>>Chris Danielsen
>>>>>>>>Director of Public Relations
>>>>>>>>National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>>(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>>>>>>(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>>>>>>cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>National Federation of the Blind Condemns
>>>>>>>>Lack of Access to New Kindle Fire
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Baltimore, Maryland (September 29, 2011): The National Federation of
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>Blind commented today on the release of Amazon's new Kindle Fire,
>>>>>>>>which
>>>>>>>>cannot be used by people who are blind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>>>>>>>said:
>>>>>>>>"Blind Americans have repeatedly asked Amazon to
>>>>>>>>include accessibility
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>the blind in its Kindle product line. The feasibility of including
>>>>>>>>accessibility in similar products has been demonstrated. The
>>>>>>>>Department
>>>>>>>>of Education and the Department of Justice have made it clear that
>>>>>>>>Kindle
>>>>>>>>devices cannot be purchased by educational institutions, libraries,
>>>>>>>>and
>>>>>>>>other entities covered by this country's disability laws unless the
>>>>>>>>devices are fully accessible. Despite all this, Amazon
>>>>>>>>has released a
>>>>>>>>brand new Kindle device, the Kindle Fire, which cannot be used by
>>>>>>>>people
>>>>>>>>who are blind. Enough! We condemn this latest action by Amazon and
>>>>>>>>reiterate that we will not tolerate technological
>>>>>>>>discrimination. The
>>>>>>>>National Federation of the Blind seeks nothing less
>>>>>>>>than equal access
>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>all technology for blind people. It is one of the most
>>>>>>>>critical civil
>>>>>>>>rights issues facing blind Americans in the
>>>>>>>>twenty-first century, and
>>>>>>>>we
>>>>>>>>will do everything in our power to see that this right is secured."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>###
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>>>>>With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation
>>>>>>>>of the Blind is
>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>largest and most influential membership organization of blind people
>>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>>the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
>>>>>>>>advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
>>>>>>>>independence and self-confidence. It is the leading force in the
>>>>>>>>blindness field today and the voice of the nation's
>>>>>>>>blind. In January
>>>>>>>>2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind Jernigan
>>>>>>>>Institute, the first research and training center in
>>>>>>>>the United States
>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>the blind led by the blind.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>nfb-talk:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>nfb-talk:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nfb-talk mailing list
>>>>>nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Nimer M. Jaber
>>
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>>
>>Registered Linux User 529141.
>>http://counter.li.org/
>>Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
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>>
>>To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>and above, please click here:
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>>
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>>
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