[nfbcs] Blindness and Computer Science RE: (no subject)

Thu Feb 21 02:19:19 UTC 2013

@Tami
Sounds like you really enjoy it. Any specific steps yo uwould recommend for
someone who already ahs a BA in economics and wnats ot learn programming
and gain experience to land an entry level job?

@Aaron
Based on your experience, how would you recommend I get started learning
and / or gaining experience. Any specific ideas you owuld suggest?

Thanks,
Zeeshan

On Wed, Feb 20, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Aaron Cannon <
cannona at fireantproductions.com> wrote:

> Another language to look at would be Python.  Even though I mostly
> work in PHP and JavaScript at work, Python is my favorite.  It's good
> for the web, good for the server, and as a few companies have shown,
> such as Dropbox, it can be good for the desktop as well.
>
> Something else I'd add to the conversation is that when you decide to
> learn a programming language, you should keep in mind that fluency is
> not just about writing well in a language, but also being able to read
> and understand what others have written.  For me, the latter has
> proven to be much more difficult to master than the former.
>
> Aaron
>
> On 2/20/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
> > Teehee. Love it! And all very good. Funny that not that long ago, C/C++,
> > etc., was just too old school... So Ms. Too Cool For That Here now
> > frequently wishes she'd taken time out to learn it! /lol/
> >
> > On 02/20/2013 11:56 AM, William Grussenmeyer wrote:
> >> the anti-novel
> >> two words: mobile programming
> >> developers.android.com
> >> developer.apple.com
> >> languages to know: Java, ObjectiveC, C/C++
> >> good books on bookshare.org = easiest ones to read, anything too
> >> complicated is worthless
> >>
> >> You can hook your apple or android phone or tablet directly to your
> >> computer and download your app right in front of you.
> >>
> >> bill
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 2/20/13, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com> wrote:
> >>> Zeeshan,
> >>>
> >>> Those are all great questions! I'll see if I can manage answers without
> >>> turning them into a novel. /smile/
> >>>
> >>> We just moved out into the sticks for family reasons, so what I do now
> >>> is wonder how the heck to get into programming somehow here. Which I've
> >>> done before, so we'll see how it goes. /smile/ I'm focusing on getting
> >>> my database skills back up to snuff, since I see more possibility to
> use
> >>> those for smaller businesses around here. So I'm using php for the
> >>> programming to build the user interface on my practice project. The
> >>> MySQL/php combination is so ubiquitous these days that it seems as good
> >>> a place to start as any, especially since most of my background is
> >>> web-based. I do need to pick a non-web language sooner or later to
> focus
> >>> on next. Even what I did know has changed so much that I just need to
> >>> relearn everything! /lol/
> >>>
> >>> I'm still getting information from the job market we just moved from,
> >>> and it's finally picking up after the long dearth. One thing I really
> >>> notice in those announcements is the focus on experience over education
> >>> in qualifications, even for the more advanced positions. Interesting.
> >>> Also, more mention of "related experience," which gives latitude for a
> >>> career-changer I should think.
> >>>
> >>> Challenges as a not-young career-change programmer... The biggest
> hurdle
> >>> I've had to overcome is the credibility gap that comes from lack of
> >>> sheepskin. But don't you have a degree? That gives you an edge right
> >>> there when it comes to having your ideas heard and implemented, which
> is
> >>> what leads to greater opportunity after you do get your foot in the
> >>> door. It can be really frustrating, but the solution is patience and a
> >>> whole lot of that extra time and effort just to prove yourself. But,
> >>> there, the advantage of having worked in other areas of business is
> that
> >>> you can demonstrate that you know a lot that the folks you're working
> >>> for will understand and appreciate. When it comes down to it, computer
> >>> skill and programming expertise is really great for advancing one's
> >>> career without absolutely needing to drop everything to polish off the
> >>> degree, which is how I ended up shifting into it. /smile/
> >>>
> >>> Also, those dreaded young kids who have been programming since they
> were
> >>> in diapers also have a whole lot of energy without necessarily having
> >>> gotten into those other life responsibilities us old and weary types
> >>> have. They can program circles around you all day, then go home and
> >>> spend the night learning all about the new stuff that is coming along
> >>> and getting good at it... I've learned to enjoy feeling stupid and left
> >>> behind because I can learn a lot from what they're learning. /smile/ I
> >>> just have to remember that I can leverage my overall experience and
> >>> maturity to keep up in ways they haven't learned to yet.
> >>>
> >>> I also need to target my off-the-job learning more efficiently, because
> >>> everything is always changing. What I know today will get me nowhere
> >>> tomorrow. So that counts as a challenge for sure, although that's what
> I
> >>> like about the field. There's a lot of tedium involved in many facets
> of
> >>> the programming process, but you never have time to just settle back
> and
> >>> get bored and complacent. /smile/
> >>>
> >>> I'd better end the novel now before I get myself in real trouble. I
> >>> found making the switch to programming and design and development to be
> >>> very worthwhile and keep coming back to that as my best option for
> >>> getting back into something I can do as a blind person here, if not so
> >>> conveniently as if there were, you know, jobs out here. /lol/ But all
> >>> that earlier business experience will come in real handy again as we
> get
> >>> settled and get back out for networking and all. I can, I hope
> >>> eventually, chat up some opportunity. /smile/
> >>>
> >>> Let us know how your further research goes and what you decide to do.
> >>>
> >>> Tami
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 02/19/2013 03:56 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
> >>>> Hi Tami,
> >>>> Thanks for your thoughtful response.
> >>>>
> >>>> So what kind of programming do you do now? Do you think age plays a
> >>>> factor
> >>>> when it comes to learning programming because nowadays you have young
> >>>> kids
> >>>> in their teens becoming wizards at programming. It seems like your
> >>>> experience has been great a a programmer, what are some of the
> >>>> challenges
> >>>> you face being a programmer in general, not necessarily being blind,
> >>>> when
> >>>> it came to learning programming? Any specific resources you would be
> >>>> able
> >>>> ot point me to, as I am looking to get started right away.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Zeeshan
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Tami Jarvis <tami at poodlemutt.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi, and welcome!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Like you, I got into programming along the way of my career and made
> a
> >>>>> career switch of it starting about the time I got to be legally
> blind.
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> just happened to have the opportunity to pick up a project no one
> else
> >>>>> wanted, which led to a more advanced project, which got me hooked. I
> >>>>> could
> >>>>> also see the advantage of having those skills for the future because
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> technology was coming along that would make it possible to continue
> to
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> it as I lost the ability to read along the way. Back then, it was a
> >>>>> real
> >>>>> advantage to be able to read print because there wasn't the
> equivalent
> >>>>> wealth of accessible reading material there is now. Stuff happened,
> so
> >>>>> I'm
> >>>>> happy all that material I need to read is available in the formats I
> >>>>> need
> >>>>> now to get back up to snuff and advance my skills. Whew!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Oddly, the new stuff I'm learning nonvisually from the get go is
> >>>>> actually
> >>>>> proving easier than what I'm re-learning that I learned visually and
> >>>>> now
> >>>>> have to totally reconceptualize, especially for programming. That
> >>>>> doesn't
> >>>>> prove a thing, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. /smile/ The stuff
> >>>>> I
> >>>>> used to need a pencil and drawing pad for on the design end is
> dratted
> >>>>> difficult, but since I know blind people who do it and have picked up
> >>>>> some
> >>>>> hints of how from them, I'm beginning to make headway even there.
> >>>>> Whew!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As for the bit where you need "a solid foundation in computer
> science"
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>> Generally, it is people who *aren't* in the field who come up with
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> one. Real programmers these days seem to be more of the opinion --
> and
> >>>>> so
> >>>>> am I -- that you can get going and accomplish quite a lot without
> >>>>> actually
> >>>>> knowing all the nitty gritty underlayers between your program and the
> >>>>> machine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That being said, it wouldn't hurt to read up on the machines
> >>>>> themselves
> >>>>> if
> >>>>> you don't already have a general idea of how they work below the
> >>>>> surface.
> >>>>> Programming is really communicating with the machine in a way that
> >>>>> makes
> >>>>> sense to it. Most modern programming languages enable you to do that
> >>>>> by
> >>>>> using existing compilers that translate your instructions down to the
> >>>>> machine itself. So if you learn Java, say, you can focus on what is
> >>>>> there
> >>>>> and let the Java compiler take care of the rest. If that makes sense.
> >>>>> But
> >>>>> for learning purposes of *how* to use Java to do more than send
> >>>>> greetings
> >>>>> to the world or make balls bounce colorfully, I think it would be a
> >>>>> strength to understand how and why at least in a general way. But
> that
> >>>>> could be just me. /smile/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Er... If you haven't really gotten started yet, I will translate my
> >>>>> last
> >>>>> attempt at humor: "Hello, World!" That is the first program you will
> >>>>> ever
> >>>>> write in any programming language. /lol/ Then you will probably give
> >>>>> greetings in colorful text and... Well, it's a start, and I'm doing
> >>>>> more
> >>>>> tutorials, and it's still there.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Tami
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 02/18/2013 08:28 PM, Zeeshan Khan wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Nicole,
> >>>>>> Yeah sorry about that, I realized I hadn't included a subject after
> I
> >>>>>> sent
> >>>>>> it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am looking to establish a solid foundation in programming whether
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>> be
> >>>>>> in programming for the computer or the internet. I really want to
> >>>>>> start
> >>>>>> out
> >>>>>> learning the basics and work my way up to being good enough to land
> a
> >>>>>> job
> >>>>>> hopefully.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What I hear many people say is , if you don't have a solid
> foundation
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> computer science, it doesn't make sense to jump into different
> >>>>>> languages
> >>>>>> if
> >>>>>> you are a beginner.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Nicole Torcolini
> >>>>>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>**wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    What kind of programming are you thinking about? There is
> >>>>>> programming
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>> runs on the computer itself and there is programming that works on
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> internet. Both have high level and low level languages.
> >>>>>>> Also, on a side note, please include subjects in your emails in the
> >>>>>>> futures
> >>>>>>> as emails without subjects are often suspected of being spam or a
> >>>>>>> virus.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nicole
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: nfbcs
> >>>>>>> [mailto:nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.**org<nfbcs-bounces at nfbnet.org>]
> >>>>>>> On Behalf Of Zeeshan Khan
> >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 8:09 PM
> >>>>>>> To: nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> Subject: [nfbcs] (no subject)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi all,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am trying to learn programming and I am an absolute beginner. As
> a
> >>>>>>> legally
> >>>>>>> blind person I want to ask you all if anyone has learned
> programming
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> computer science as a blind person. The things is I have already
> >>>>>>> gotten
> >>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>> degree in economics about 3 years ago, so I am not sure if I am too
> >>>>>>> late
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> the field. So how did any of you learn computer science/
> >>>>>>> programming?
> >>>>>>> What
> >>>>>>> resources did you use? how long did it take you to become a decent
> >>>>>>> programmer, or at least good enough to land a job? I am not trying
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>> back to school and get a Bachelors as it own't really help me, plus
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>> have the time as I am working. I really want to learn computer
> >>>>>>> science
> >>>>>>> as I
> >>>>>>> am looking to make a career change, and the future is in
> technology.
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>> am
> >>>>>>> aware of many online resources, like codecademy, coursera and other
> >>>>>>> free
> >>>>>>> things online, but not sure if I should get into these, as I lack a
> >>>>>>> foundation in computer science. What is the job market like , in
> >>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>> opinion?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I really look forward to hearing your thoughts and experiences,
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Zeeshan Khan
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ToiBooks
> >>>>>>> www.toibooks.com
> >>>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/**ToiBooks
> >>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
> >>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> nfbcs:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/**
> >>>>>>> ntorcolini%40wavecable.co<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.co
> >
> >>>>>>> m
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>>>> nfbcs mailing list
> >>>>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> nfbcs:
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/**
> >>>>>>> zeek786%40gmail.com<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>> nfbcs mailing list
> >>>>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org<
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nfbcs:
> >>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/**zeek786%40gmail.com
> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nfbcs mailing list
> >>> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nfbcs:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/wdg31415%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nfbcs mailing list
> >> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nfbcs:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/tami%40poodlemutt.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nfbcs mailing list
> > nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nfbcs:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/cannona%40fireantproductions.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nfbcs mailing list
> nfbcs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbcs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nfbcs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfbcs_nfbnet.org/zeek786%40gmail.com
>

-- 

Zeeshan Khan

ToiBooks
www.toibooks.com
http://www.facebook.com/ToiBooks