[BlindMath] Please, more talk between blind math users and LaTeX developers

Sun Mar 14 05:23:11 UTC 2021

The LaTeX team members are listed on the latex project web page:
https://www.latex-project.org/about/team/.

Neil Soiffer

On Sat, Mar 13, 2021 at 8:56 AM Brandon Keith Biggs <
brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> Who are the LaTeX developers working on making tagged documents? I would
> like to talk with them about their funding.
> Thanks,
>
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs <http://brandonkeithbiggs.com/>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 11:53 PM Neil Soiffer via BlindMath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Please bear in mind that money is also a factor. Those latex developers
>> who
>> work on latex do it on their own time. They have had a few donations, but
>> nowhere near enough to fund a full time position, let alone several
>> positions. AFAIK, those estimates were based on their current ability to
>> do
>> work. They recently got funding from Adobe and I believe that will allow
>> at
>> least one person to work full time on this (maybe it was two people) and
>> that they expect substantial progress on tagging this year, and maybe math
>> support the following year.
>>
>> I hope I'm accurately describing the current situation and not letting my
>> optimism influence my memory. I expect to help out in what little way I
>> can, especially for the math tagging, and will know more late in the
>> month.
>> I will update the list with their current status and plans at that point.
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 7:27 PM Tony Malykh via BlindMath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Jonathan,
>> >
>> > Thanks for working on this. I did my own investigation a while ago and I
>> > came to a similar conclusion that this is largely a social problem. Very
>> > interesting document about timeline of Latex to tagged PDF development.
>> > Although it seems almost ridiculously slow: spend 3 years and looks like
>> > that won't even tag the actual math content. But still good to know that
>> > they are working on that.
>> >
>> > Please let me know if you need any social support to push on this - like
>> > write an email/petition to latex developers - I myself work in ML and I
>> > am heavily affected by lack of accessible PDFs in ML conferences. I can
>> > probably also find a couple of more blind ML devs who would hopefully
>> > agree to push jointly.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>> > On 3/3/2021 7:46 AM, Jonathan Fine via BlindMath wrote:
>> > > Hi
>> > >
>> > > This is about improving communication between blind math students and
>> > > support staff on the one side and the LaTeX developers on the other.
>> > >
>> > > I'll be brief. Kellee Sanchez's request for help started a discussion
>> > which
>> > > I found to be very good. It covers many interlinked topics. It will
>> take
>> > me
>> > > some time to digest and understand. I'm learning so much from this
>> > > discussion.
>> > >
>> http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindmath_nfbnet.org/2021-March/009702.html
>> > >
>> > > I'm a long-time TeX user. I'd like the developers there, particularly
>> > those
>> > > focussed on accessible PDF and on TeX-to-HTML (or XML), to similarly
>> > learn
>> > > from this discussion. To make this discussion more accessible to them
>> and
>> > > others, I'll summarize it in posts on my blog.
>> > > https://jfine2358.github.io/
>> > >
>> > > I think there's a real social problem. TeX users care about
>> typography.
>> > > Blind people can't see typography. TeX users love PDF. Blind people,
>> it
>> > > seems to me, love accessible HTML. Blind students need accessible
>> > material
>> > > during the course. TeX developers think long term.
>> > >
>> > > This need not be a problem. We all care about communication and
>> > usability.
>> > > We have shared interests and values. The social problem I see is that
>> > there
>> > > are too few connections between these two communities.
>> > >
>> > > Let's have more sharing between the people on the Blind Math mailing
>> list
>> > > and the developers on the LaTeX project. This conversation can help
>> both
>> > > sides.
>> > >
>> > > The LaTeX developers hope to produce tagged PDF no sooner than 4 years
>> > from
>> > > now, with math support to follow later. For math support they need to
>> > > extract and store the TeX source for the equations.  Achieving this
>> LaTeX
>> > > developer goal will I'm sure help blind math users.
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.latex-project.org/publications/2020-tagged-pdf-feasibility.pdf
>> > >
>> > > Let's make progress by talking more with each other. And working
>> together
>> > > when we can.
>> > >
>> > > with best wishes
>> > >
>> > > Jonathan
>> > >
>> > > This message sent to:
>> > >
>> > > Blind Math mailing list
>> > > TUG accessibility mailing list
>> > > TUG texhax list
>> > > LaTeX3 mailing list
>> > > LaTeX team email address
>> > > TUG members
>> > > UK TUG members
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > BlindMath mailing list
>> > > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > BlindMath:
>> > >
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/anton.malykh%40gmail.com
>> > > BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> > http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > BlindMath mailing list
>> > BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > BlindMath:
>> >
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> > http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> BlindMath mailing list
>> BlindMath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> BlindMath:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <
>> http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>