[Trainer-Talk] Windows Mail or Thunderbird

Wed Apr 14 13:48:02 UTC 2021

Hello,

I am a user of webmail, and find that it meets my needs. I am a host of
blindtechguys.com podcast, and have been doing demos of web apps. I covered
Gmail a couple of weeks ago. Gmail is incredibly powerful on the web, with
tasks being quite accessible with keyboard access. Outlook.com also has a
web app, and is quite decent as a web app.

Just as an aside, I really feel that trainers do clients a disservice by
not putting more focus on web apps, as their use is more and more
prevalent these days, and they don't require for any software to be
installed on a machine to be used. If a student wishes to use Outlook,
that's fine, but I do think as many options as possible within time
restraints should at least be touched upon, and web apps should be getting
more attention. This, unfortunately, doesn't seem to be the case yet, but
it is doing blind people a disservice, particularly as many companies are
starting to, or are not supplying laptops where Outlook is installed, and
many schools and universities have turned to the use of Chromebooks. I know
many trainers have the belief that Chrome OS isn't accessible or usable,
and many students never learn it, opting instead to try to get a Windows
computer (or a Mac which is even worse in many instances as it isn't used
in corporate environments as much or at all), but I also believe this to be
a mistake, that students aren't using what their peers are using. Anyway,
babble over, and I hope my thoughts on this have been made clear. Should
anyone have additional questions on this, please get in touch either on
here or by reaching out privately at nimerjaber1 at gmail.com, or my phone
number in my signature.

On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 10:14 PM David Goldfield via Trainer-Talk <
trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Marci,
>
> In all honesty any recent version of Outlook will provide the best
> accessibility experience for email management with JAWS if that is
> something that the student would consider. JAWS includes many features that
> make Outlook a joy to use as long as the device is a recent model. Older,
> slower machines may provide slower performance.
>
> I used Thunderbird for around eleven years before I switched to Outlook
> when I bought a used but powerful laptop. Thunderbird should be powerful
> enough for most home users. It's also very fast and responsive, even on
> slower machines. It works reasonably well with JAWS although it may present
> a few quirks, not the least being that it is very difficult to rearrange
> columns from the keyboard. By default, Thunderbird presents the subject of
> the message first, followed by the sender. This is atypical from the
> default behavior of every other email program I've used, going back to
> Eudora in the late 1990s and possibly even Pine before that although my
> memory is a bit hazy when it comes to Pine, but I digress. While you can
> rearrange the columns to show the sender of the message before the subject
> Thunderbird offers no method for doing this with the keyboard. When using
> NVDA I was able to rearrange columns using object navigation along with
> drag and drop commands but the process for doing this is awkward. NVDA also
> has an addon<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html>
> in their official addon repository that provides a way to rearrange columns
> using a fairly intuitive interface. However, I am unclear as to whether the
> addon will be updated for the 2021.1 release, which will require addons to
> be updated in order to support this upcoming release. It may be possible to
> rearrange columns using the touch cursor in JAWS along with drag and drop
> but I haven't attempted to do this.
>
> Also, sometimes when deleting messages using JAWS you might hear "not
> selected, not selected" followed by the new message which has gained focus.
> I have raised this issue with Freedom Scientific in a blog post<
> https://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com/2020/01/02/my-feature-wish-list-for-jaws-2020/>
> I wrote a while back containing a list of feature requests that I'd like to
> see implemented in JAWS. One of the things I mentioned was that JAWS needed
> more robust support for Thunderbird and the issues I just mentioned were
> brought up in that post.
>
> Also, the last time I attempted to use Thunderbird’s built-in Lightning
> calendar I found it to be inaccessible. Contrast this with Outlook’s
> calendar which is very accessible. In fact, when used with the third-party
> Leasey<http://www.leaseycentral.com/> software from Hartgen Consultancy
> using the calendar in Outlook is a wonderful experience. It's been a while
> since I've used the Windows Mail app installed with Windows 10. I found it
> to be a bit unreliable, though not inaccessible. I didn't use it long
> enough to be able to competently describe my experiences. It certainly can
> be used but it's very basic compared to Thunderbird. As an example, I don't
> believe that the Mail app allows the user to set up any message rules or
> filters. Thunderbird allows for this and doing so is accessible.
>
> Bottom line: if your student can gain access to Outlook and if the laptop
> is powerful enough to support it with decent performance that's really the
> way to go, particularly with JAWS. If that's not an option Thunderbird
> should definitely be considered as the next choice.
>
>
>
>
>
> David Goldfield,
>
> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
>
> JAWS Certified, 2019
>
> Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding
> news and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
>
> Email: tech-vi+subscribe at groups.io
>
>
>
> www.DavidGoldfield.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Brad
> Snyder via Trainer-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 3:33 PM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology <
> trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Brad Snyder <wbsjr at swbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Windows Mail or Thunderbird
>
>
>
> Personally, I really don't like accessing email using a web browser, and
> would choose any email client over the web browser alternative.
>
> Since I have not used windows mail, I cannot comment on how closely it
> resembles using Outlook. I would assume the keyboard command structure is
> very similar, and since it should already be installed on a windows 10
> computer, there's no harm in giving it a try. alternatively, Thunderbird is
> free, and I understand the accessibility using JAWS is very good.
>
> I would think either one would be a better choice than using the web-based
> alternative.
>
>
>
> - Brad -
>
>
>
> On Apr 13, 2021, at 12:51, Marci Duty via Trainer-Talk <
> trainer-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello, I have a student who purchased a desktop and a laptop from
> Computers for the Blind. For ease of access to email she purchased a copy
> of Office 2016 Pro for her desktop. She has recently received her laptop
> and Computers for the Blind includes a copy of Office Home and Student 2019
> with her laptop.
>
> She has access to Word and Excel, but wants a client for her Email
> accounts. She has Gmail and Outlook accounts and just updated to JAWS 2021
> on both computers. Which email client is recommended? She wants ease of use
> and if possible a lot of the same commands she is used to in Outlook 2016.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I thought Windows Mail would be a good choice because of the similar
> command structure and because both programs are from Microsoft. A
> conversation yesterday encouraged me to download and teach her Thunderbird.
> I also entertained the thought of teaching Gmail in standard view after the
> FS Training.  Your thoughts please requested.
>
>
>
> Thank you for reading and make this Tuesday terrific!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Respectfully,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Marci Duty
>
>
>
> Email: marci.smiles at gmail.com<mailto:marci.smiles at gmail.com>
>
>
>
> Phone: (214) 732-5788
>
>
>
> Isaiah 30
>
>
>
> 15  For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel,
> says:
>
>
>
> "By returning to me and resting, you will be saved;
>
>
>
> Your strength will be in keeping calm and showing trust."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Trainer-Talk mailing list
>
> Trainer-Talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:Trainer-Talk at nfbnet.org>
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrainer-talk_nfbnet.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3a8aa03b528548e9a4f208d8febabcee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637539425266442576%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=0uDo0%2BuXjtI%2FWMKeQSIeHyPpoa5aQJ546YZzX75l0Rs%3D&reserved=0
>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-Talk:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Ftrainer-talk_nfbnet.org%2Fwbsjr%2540swbell.net&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3a8aa03b528548e9a4f208d8febabcee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637539425266442576%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=pEFwSuyBl5lH0zfd2Mwek2NEekW6U3%2B84zPiiOtMHzo%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Trainer-Talk mailing list
>
> Trainer-Talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:Trainer-Talk at nfbnet.org>
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrainer-talk_nfbnet.org&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3a8aa03b528548e9a4f208d8febabcee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637539425266442576%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=0uDo0%2BuXjtI%2FWMKeQSIeHyPpoa5aQJ546YZzX75l0Rs%3D&reserved=0
>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-Talk:
>
>
> https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet.org%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Ftrainer-talk_nfbnet.org%2Fdavid.goldfield%2540outlook.com&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3a8aa03b528548e9a4f208d8febabcee%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637539425266442576%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ucJ%2BEL4l08WTnYikiJaYeia37BMjJjGNPwfOpXTN5DQ%3D&reserved=0
> _______________________________________________
> Trainer-Talk mailing list
> Trainer-Talk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Trainer-Talk:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/trainer-talk_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>

-- 
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!