[Trainer-Talk] Windows Mail or Thunderbird

Wed Apr 14 21:41:03 UTC 2021

To clarify, I didn’t say web-based email access was not efficient.  That is in the eye of the individual user.
What I said was I do not like web-base email access, and prefer using pretty much any email client over web-based email access.

Wayne, I suspect you lost your email using older clients like Eudora and Outlook Express, because those older clients provide only POP access.
Had you been using a client that used IMAP, your email would have resided on the email provider’s server, and would not have been lost.

- Brad -

On Apr 14, 2021, at 08:38, Wayne Merritt via Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi. I need to chime in on this. I used email programs for a long time
like Eudora, and way back in the day Outlook Express. They worked
great for me, particularly Eudora, but I ran into a situation where I
had to reinstall Windows twice and lost everything, including my
previously setup email programs. As a result, I drifted towards web
based email, like Gmail. It took me several months to learn my way
around and to get it to work for me. However, once that was done I
haven't looked back. All due respect to those like Brad who say that
web based email is inefficient, if a user is well versed in their
web-based email navigation with JAWS or other screen readers, using
web based email has its advantages. Not the least of which they can be
used on multiple platforms and more than one computer. These days, we
can synchronize email with mobile devices to make it that much more
powerful. Yes, there are things which may be quicker in an email
program, such as deleting mail. However, I would argue that I can
delete email fairly quick and comfortably. I use the Gmail Basic View
since it is the most accessible. Yes, it is an older version and
doesn't have all the extra bells and whistles of Standard View, but
most of those features I would not likely use anyway.

Be well,
Wayne Merritt

On 4/13/21, David Goldfield via Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Marci,
> 
> In all honesty any recent version of Outlook will provide the best
> accessibility experience for email management with JAWS if that is something
> that the student would consider. JAWS includes many features that make
> Outlook a joy to use as long as the device is a recent model. Older, slower
> machines may provide slower performance.
> 
> I used Thunderbird for around eleven years before I switched to Outlook when
> I bought a used but powerful laptop. Thunderbird should be powerful enough
> for most home users. It's also very fast and responsive, even on slower
> machines. It works reasonably well with JAWS although it may present a few
> quirks, not the least being that it is very difficult to rearrange columns
> from the keyboard. By default, Thunderbird presents the subject of the
> message first, followed by the sender. This is atypical from the default
> behavior of every other email program I've used, going back to Eudora in the
> late 1990s and possibly even Pine before that although my memory is a bit
> hazy when it comes to Pine, but I digress. While you can rearrange the
> columns to show the sender of the message before the subject Thunderbird
> offers no method for doing this with the keyboard. When using NVDA I was
> able to rearrange columns using object navigation along with drag and drop
> commands but the process for doing this is awkward. NVDA also has an
> addon<https://addons.nvda-project.org/addons/mozillaScripts.en.html> in
> their official addon repository that provides a way to rearrange columns
> using a fairly intuitive interface. However, I am unclear as to whether the
> addon will be updated for the 2021.1 release, which will require addons to
> be updated in order to support this upcoming release. It may be possible to
> rearrange columns using the touch cursor in JAWS along with drag and drop
> but I haven't attempted to do this.
> 
> Also, sometimes when deleting messages using JAWS you might hear "not
> selected, not selected" followed by the new message which has gained focus.
> I have raised this issue with Freedom Scientific in a blog
> post<https://davidgoldfield.wordpress.com/2020/01/02/my-feature-wish-list-for-jaws-2020/>
> I wrote a while back containing a list of feature requests that I'd like to
> see implemented in JAWS. One of the things I mentioned was that JAWS needed
> more robust support for Thunderbird and the issues I just mentioned were
> brought up in that post.
> 
> Also, the last time I attempted to use Thunderbird’s built-in Lightning
> calendar I found it to be inaccessible. Contrast this with Outlook’s
> calendar which is very accessible. In fact, when used with the third-party
> Leasey<http://www.leaseycentral.com/> software from Hartgen Consultancy
> using the calendar in Outlook is a wonderful experience. It's been a while
> since I've used the Windows Mail app installed with Windows 10. I found it
> to be a bit unreliable, though not inaccessible. I didn't use it long enough
> to be able to competently describe my experiences. It certainly can be used
> but it's very basic compared to Thunderbird. As an example, I don't believe
> that the Mail app allows the user to set up any message rules or filters.
> Thunderbird allows for this and doing so is accessible.
> 
> Bottom line: if your student can gain access to Outlook and if the laptop is
> powerful enough to support it with decent performance that's really the way
> to go, particularly with JAWS. If that's not an option Thunderbird should
> definitely be considered as the next choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David Goldfield,
> 
> Blindness Assistive Technology Specialist
> 
> JAWS Certified, 2019
> 
> Subscribe to the Tech-VI announcement list to receive emails regarding news
> and events in the blindness assistive technology field.
> 
> Email: tech-vi+subscribe at groups.io
> 
> 
> 
> www.DavidGoldfield.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Trainer-Talk <trainer-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Brad
> Snyder via Trainer-Talk
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2021 3:33 PM
> To: List for teachers and trainers of adaptive technology
> <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Brad Snyder <wbsjr at swbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [Trainer-Talk] Windows Mail or Thunderbird
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I really don't like accessing email using a web browser, and
> would choose any email client over the web browser alternative.
> 
> Since I have not used windows mail, I cannot comment on how closely it
> resembles using Outlook. I would assume the keyboard command structure is
> very similar, and since it should already be installed on a windows 10
> computer, there's no harm in giving it a try. alternatively, Thunderbird is
> free, and I understand the accessibility using JAWS is very good.
> 
> I would think either one would be a better choice than using the web-based
> alternative.
> 
> 
> 
> - Brad -
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 13, 2021, at 12:51, Marci Duty via Trainer-Talk
> <trainer-talk at nfbnet.org<mailto:trainer-talk at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hello, I have a student who purchased a desktop and a laptop from Computers
> for the Blind. For ease of access to email she purchased a copy of Office
> 2016 Pro for her desktop. She has recently received her laptop and Computers
> for the Blind includes a copy of Office Home and Student 2019 with her
> laptop.
> 
> She has access to Word and Excel, but wants a client for her Email accounts.
> She has Gmail and Outlook accounts and just updated to JAWS 2021 on both
> computers. Which email client is recommended? She wants ease of use and if
> possible a lot of the same commands she is used to in Outlook 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I thought Windows Mail would be a good choice because of the similar command
> structure and because both programs are from Microsoft. A conversation
> yesterday encouraged me to download and teach her Thunderbird. I also
> entertained the thought of teaching Gmail in standard view after the FS
> Training.  Your thoughts please requested.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you for reading and make this Tuesday terrific!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Respectfully,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Marci Duty
> 
> 
> 
> Email: marci.smiles at gmail.com<mailto:marci.smiles at gmail.com>
> 
> 
> 
> Phone: (214) 732-5788
> 
> 
> 
> Isaiah 30
> 
> 
> 
> 15  For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel,
> says:
> 
> 
> 
> "By returning to me and resting, you will be saved;
> 
> 
> 
> Your strength will be in keeping calm and showing trust."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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